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Re: The Devil
 

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trapper/kcmo Views: 2,634
Published: 14 years ago
 
This is a reply to # 987,219

Re: The Devil


this is not a correct interpretation. it is also too long for me to address point for point. let me give you some starting points. i do not pretend to understand all of this, but there are a couple of things that seem clear.

i do agree with the first part. the word lucifer is translating at its poorest. it is a transliterated word in english of a latin translation of hebrew used as a title as opposed to the descriptive words from the hebrew. it is totally botched. all i have to do is hear a person use the term "lucifer" and i know that they have no understanding of what they say(sorry, just the truth).

it seems a bit funny to me that the teachers can see christ in isaiah 53:

Isaiah 53:3
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

but they fail to take jesus word for it that the entire scriptures speak of him. not the only instance of that, i tell you. and in this case, there are clues, like nebuchadnezzar being called king of kings and lord of lords - a title also used of jesus christ. i will end this digression here.

the passage in question is in the midst of many things the lord is saying through isaiah. it is hard to see the connection between the things he says. it is like a dream that seems disjointed, unconnected, even illogical. the spirit is giving utterence and isaiah is writing it down. i doubt that he understood what he was writing. he just knew it was important. and those things he could connect gave him assurance that it was correct. in fact, the language of god is a dream. it is in pictures. the hebrew alphebet itself being nothing more than stylized pictures of things which have certain connotations and properties. one thing is for sure, isaiah knew a lot. and he walked with god.

lets look at a portion of it and i will comment what i see:

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

bright star, son of the morning. that is how i would translate the hebrew. then jesus comes along at the end of his being revealed by john and says, oh, by the way, i am the bright and shining star. ok, thats helpful to know. one cannot argue that jesus was humbled. it is also amazing that in this state, he did remove some of the control governments had over its citizens. when threat of death wont sway you, what power do you really have. you have to recognize that kind of determination. it cannot be defeated, only subverted.

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

this is interpreted as being full of pride. uh, not if it is true.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

jesus did go to the grave.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

this part loses me

18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

again, i dont understand all the symbols here, or know for certain that the translation is accurate. there are some things in language that have to be understood before a decent translation can be obtained. thats why learning about the original languages is essential. not being fluid, but being acquainted, at least. certainly jesus can be seen as having been cast forth from his grave. the reference of a branch may be significant. remember, jesus is the first fruit, the only begotten son, but he does say he has brothers, even by adoption. and he refers to himself as the vine. there is just too much coincidence here. jesus was thrust through with a spear. here a sword is mentioned. there are other places where jesus fulfills the word up to a point, but the word continues, i assume to be continued by those that are in christ.

20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

jesus did foretell the destruction of the temple, in a roundabout way. les than a generation passed after the crucifixion and jerusalem was razed.

21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

and there has not been a true jewish state since. also, another way to look at it is that those following christ are not going to be involved in those worldly institutions of power, posessions and politics.
 

 
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