[gallstones] Re: the ”stones” debate revisited

You wrote:

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------People claim to have passed very large stones that were several inches. This is a physical impossibility. The bile duct will stretch, but if you stretch them like that, you ARE going to feel a lot of pain. Just like an acute attack if one gets stuck in the gull opening. The ducts will stretch, but not that big. If you are getting stones this large, they are created in the small intestine. How? Simple. The large dump of bile that is lacking in bile acids will precipitate large gobs of cholesterol in the intestine just like in the liver. The mixing itself of the bile with the contents of the stomach will dilute the bile acids and cause this to happen. --------
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Please explain to me how my experience would fit into your theory (please feel free to read my previous posts for more information).


I feel some of your facts are correct...but there is some of it that just doesn't appear to fit with my experience.


I was one of these people who have passed several of these very large stones that you mention...ith each flush the pain was noticeably reduced, along with a number of other symptoms I was experiencing...but it wasn't until I passed the largest of the stones that the pain went entirely away

( I still have a "small" pain near the outer edge of my ribs, liver area still, that sometimes surfaces. It has not been constant but when it presents itself, it is always in the same area. I haven't flushed for awhile to see if that would eliminate that particular pain....but when I compare it to the discomfort I used to be in...believe me, it is hardly noticeable).


Several hours before I finally passed these large stones I literally felt them move laterally under my ribs. This feeling was like someone had rubbed their finger, with very firm pressure from inside my body, across my liver for a distance of about 5-7 inches toward my gall bladder (the start of the feeling, and the pain from it, was in slightly different places for each of the large stones that passed - the first time it was closer to the gallbladderplement nightmare? rust colored would apply)

In fact, all but two of the "stones" that passed in that flush were this color and texture (this is not including the bits of clay like substance I passed in that flush that I feel most likely did come from the colon - the largest of this substance passed in the 4th flush with no more it passing after that).

The largest "stone" didn't pass until the 4th flush and the second largest passed with the 5th flush.

In 6 flushes I can honestly say my body has only produced, at the maximum, about 700 to 800 of these "stones".....that is including all of them.

Most of these numbers were passed in the first 3 flushes. In the last 3 flushes, my body only produced about 100 or so "stones."

Yes, I do feel the body is constantly forming globs of cholesterol and then breaking them down.


After years of trying to loose weight, (which to my frustration, even training for a marathon actually made me GAIN weight last year) for the first time in nearly ten years I have lost nearly 25 pounds...without any extra effort on my part.

This is about how much weight I have gained in the last two years (in 10 years I have gained over 60 pounds and NOTHING I tried, even with the help of trainers, seem to stop the process - in fact, it seemed the more I worked out and watched my diet, the more weight I would gain- believe me I got tired of hearing "your just gaining muscle"...yeah 60 pounds of it. Sure, like I can believe that!) I feel that for the first time in years my liver is now processing, burning and eliminating the cholesterol in my body like it was designed to. This occurred only AFTER I did the flushing and passed the largest of these stones.

(I started the first of my 6 flushes in January). Most of that weight has come off in the last 2 months and it is still occurring. Everybody has been asking what I have been doing lately to look so good, not only with the weight loss, but with my whole appearance and demeanor. I swear, even I can see the difference when I look in the mirror....I look and feel like I have lost 10 years. I had some pictures taken of me recently and compared them to some taken last year and some that were taken 10 years ago....and the difference is shocking. I now look closer to pictures of me at 24 years of age than I do to pictures taken of me last year!

You should see people's expression when they look at the comparison. The only real significant changes I have made to my lifestyle, other than the flushing, has been to incorporate a few simple guidelines that I knew about before but was never very diligent in following.

1) when I eat dairy, I eat it like I would eat a condiment-infrrequently and only a small amount at a time

2) drink less water with my meals, and if I do drink anything with my meals, I try to make it warm lemon water with apple cider vinegar added - if possible 3) try not to eat after 7 or 8 pm

4) try to give my body at least 5 hours to digest meals before going to bed

5) I eat the same amount of food as before, if not more :~)...but I have been breaking them up in to smaller meals which I eat throughout the day (my goal is 6 to 8 meals - but since I used to habitually only eat one meal a day - I am doing good to get 3 or 4 meals in a day right now)

6) switched to using more omega 3 and 9 oils and less omega 6 oil (I have always been a vegetarian....so the only animal fat issue in my diet has been what little dairy & egg I consume - both before and since the flush).

7) increasing my raw food intake from what used to average about 40 to 50 percent of my diet to currently about 70 to 80 percent of my diet. 8) from what I have been reading about soy lately - I have been restricting my usage of it to mostly sprouted and fermented forms and keeping the other to only infrequent condiment portions. Do I expect everyone to have the same experience I have had with doing the flushing...of course not....there are many factors at play with this sort of thing and the results can vary drastically. From what you have said you have only done one flush....it has taken me 6 flushes to where I am now pain free...others, like Barry, have much more difficult things going on that will lead them to find other ways to be pain free....but....with what you have written, it makes me feel like I should doubt my own experience.

Though I may try to put my experiences, and what I have read of other's experiences with flushing, into context, and then try to come up new understandings about what is going on...I do not doubt my experiences. I know what I felt - before, during and after each flush (all of which had very different results), I know that flushing has dramatically changed my life for the better.

If I had only done one flush, I do feel I would be experiencing what you are now....continued discomfort. If I had stuck to doing only one night of flushing each time, instead of doing the mixture two nights in a row...I feel I may have gotten the same results...but that it would have taken more overall flushes to get where I am now. Keep investigating, listen to your body (sometimes that requires you to set "logic" aside :~)) and do what you body feels most comfortable with. I felt more comfortable after each flush than I did for years prior to it...so I kept doing it...and it has made all the difference for me. I feel there is always a lot more to be learned and discovered with how the body works and I am still constantly learning. :~)


You wrote:
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------There are bile balls or globs of cholesterol that a lot of people are calling stones that have been produced by the liver in the hundreds by the flushing methods itself and then there are 'real' Gallstones of the hard cholesterol or calcium type that is the real cause behind the colic attacks of gallbladder pain.------
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Now for Barry :~)


I was never diagnosed with "gallstones"....though my pain was definitely present....sometimes to where I could hardly breath or move. The only real difference I have noticed with my pain, and how others who have expressed what they have experienced with "hardened" gallstones, is that my pain was more constant....what I really mean was that I was ALWAYS in discomfort, it was just a matter of degree. Though the pain I was experiencing was focused at the gallbladder area, it did encompassed my entire liver area.

All my tests came back normal. What then was causing my pain? Why, after passing these "bile globs," am I now pain free...with no actual gallstones, as you classify them to be, to show for it? You keep mentioning these "bile balls" would normally exit the body on their own without flushing. Why then is the evidence in my case (based to the expanded description of my experience written above) pointing to that not occurring? You mention that dieting would eventually dissolve them over time...as I have stated, my diet before the flushing was by normal standards already better than good. Granted, I have switched to a diet that is by what many would consider almost fanatical, to get the optimum results that I am experiencing...not because it has caused me pain not to....but because I do not want any repeats of this happening again.....not to mention I like how I feel when I do follow these guidelines than when I don't.

I can not think that I am the only one on this list who has had this kind of experience...an experience which I am now just calling a "sluggish liver syndrome" caused by years of extreme stress and lack of proper eating and sleep patterns (these are what I tend to think may be the root of my health problems).

I have a learned a great deal over the past 5 months form this list and all the posts. You all have been a great support to me in regaining my health. I look forward to continuing to learn more....even though I am now technically "pain free." :~)

Regards, Christa



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