Re: Ban domineering forum owners from the debate forum webmaster!

 I still think you're way over-the-top, comparing liver flush promoters to members of a cult.

You are entitled to your opinion just like I am.

Many people try new and unproven remedies. Someone had to try them the first time in order to figure out whether they work.

And if they don't why keep using them when there are proven remedies that do exist?

Basically all of natural healing is based on experimenting on ourselves, in my opinion. I don't decide what to try by reading scientific studies, I decide by using common sense and intuition and by reading and studying different points of view, when I'm able to find sources that I trust.

But common sense as well as science tells us that the claims being made for these flushes are bogus.  For example can you show me any evidence that people can pass real gallstones the size of a quarter or larger through the bile ducts?  I have seen so many claims like this, but common sense should tell them that you cannot pass a stone larger than the maximum diameter of the bile ducts through the bile ducts.  It is physically impossible!!!

And it's a rare thing these days to find sources that can be trusted. The internet is full of liars and hustlers.

Yes, I agree.   And they rely on misleading or outright false information to promote their hustles.  The same that goes on with the disproven claims of the liver flush supporters.

I think you get upset when you see gullible people being taken advantage of. It seems to me that you're trying to slay the "dragon of all false and harmful health info" on Curezone. The problem is, forum owners such as yourself and others have strong beliefs that conflict with each other. You'll get much further in convincing reasonable people like myself if you will explain without insulting.

Again I do not attack unless attacked first.  Problem is that the people who decide to start the attacks do so because this s often all they understand.  It is like the abused child that grows up only understanding abuse.  So in essence it is required sometimes to "speak" to them on their level.

You're suggesting that people who do Liver Flushes are mindless zombies who will try anything (such as cyanide) that's suggested to them.

Not quite what I said, but I know where you going with this.  But how am I wrong here?  The overwhelming evidence that the claims are bogus has been presented over and over.  Yet these people not only continue on without blinking an eye, they do everything they can including attacking, being misleading and even outright lying to defend the disproven.  So again, how was I wrong?

That type of superior attitude causes me to lose some of my respect for you, and I do respect you.

As I pointed out in the past I am here to help people, not win a popularity contest.  Tough love may not make me popular, but it sure beats doing nothing and having someone get hurt from the procedure because they were not made aware of the facts including the dangers.  This would be like watching a child playing with gasoline and matches and not taking any action because you want to be known as the "cool parent".   What should be a priority?  Safety or popularity?

There are many weird things that I don't agree with, like coffee enemas and urine therapy, however I wouldn't call people who use them members of a devil cult.

Again, this is not what I said.  Don't twist what was really said to make a point.

I don't consider your statement that liver flushes have been proven to be unsafe to be any kind of proof at all. That's the problem. You may have seen these things happen with your own eyes, but I haven't. We all know how records can be changed and mistakes covered up, especially in hospitals.

I don't need to drop a big anvil on my foot to know it is going to hurt and break some bones.  There are some things that are already well known so I have no need to proven them to myself.  The same applies to having real gallstones lodged in the bile ducts.  This has happened to people who ended up having surgery.  So the risk of pancreatitis from a lodged gallstone is a reality, not someone's made up fantasy.  In fact I am pretty sure I posted an example of this from one of the medical journals recently.  But since you brought up common sense earlier is it common sense that strong contractions of the gallbladder from the consumption of a large amount of oil increases the risk of a real gallstone lodging in the bile ducts?  A real simple question that I would really like to have an answer for.

It does make sense to me that doing a Liver Flush if you don't have a gall bladder could be very harmful.

Why not? Do you know what causes the chronic diarrhea after gallbladder removal.  Again simple common sense can answer this question.

As for Hulda Clark , I agree with her viewpoint on dental work being harmful and a source of many poisons in the body. Also, I agree with her belief that parasites are a far greater problem than many people realize.

I have not seen her dental claims, but the parasite issue is way OVERBLOWN!!!!!

As far as proving that liver flushes expel large gallstones, I have no opinion on this. I haven't studied it and I've never done a liver/GB flush. I don't pretend to be an expert and have no proof to offer, on either side of the issue. Scienceis based on theory and hypothesis and these change constantly. We make our own observations of life, we share them and argue about them, but how can anyone prove that they're right?

Simple, those big blobs people are passing DO NOT have the same characteristics as REAL gallstones, lab analysis has proven these are not gallstones and they have been proven to be primarily fecal soaps, which are well known and common.    How much more evidence is required for proof?  People accept things all the time as factual with less proof than that.

We can say whatever we want and others will choose whether to believe us or not.

That's fine, but the anti "liver flush" people should have the right to present evidence so people can make rational decisions.  If they go forth with it and get hurt from the procedure then it is on them.  If I know there is danger and fail to say anything then it is equally on me.  Again just like if I were not to say anything if I saw a child playing with matches and gasoline.  If I fail to take action and that child gets hurt then I am equally to blame.