Re: You do not need to analyze "stones"

 only calcified stones will sink. just as only calcified masses stones will show up on ultrasound.

Wrong.  Calcification is needed to be picked up on a CT scan or X-ray.   Ultrasound can pick up non-calcified stones.

we have covered this many times. calcium stones are not the only type of stones. nor or calcified stones the only type of 'real' stones.

And as has been pointed out gallstones are VERY slow to form. And the longer they are in the gallbladder the more they calcify.  So any stone more than a few millimeters is going to be calcified and sink.  So these big blobs of hardened olive oil being formed in the intestines by the flushes are not real gallstones.

And yes, there are different types of stones, but cholesterol stones are the most common.

there is in fact no such thing as 'real' stones.

Yes, they are the opposite of pseudostones formed in the intestines from the so-called "liver flushes".

there are many different types of stones produced by the body, and only some of them are calcified.

We are not talking about the body in general, we are talking about the gallbladder primarily, and possibly the liver although liver stones are rare in most of the world.  Either way the majority of these real stones are calcified cholesterol or calcified bilirubin.  Again stones are VERY slow to form and the longer they remain in the gallbladder the more they calcify.  So again any REAL gallstone more than a few millimeters in size will be calcified and sink.  And again this explains why so many true lab analyses of these pseudostones have confirmed that they are hardened olive oil.

the most common type of stones reported by people who do flushes are coagulated bile stones.

That is not what the lab tests show.  They confirm these are hardened olive oil.

they have the consistency of hardened wax and they float.

Real gallstones are not waxy nor do they float.  So again this just proves beyond a reasonable doubt that these are hardened olive oil.

real soap btw, does not melt.

Since when?  How do you think they pour MELTED soaps in to molds.  And saponified olive oil also melts.  But real gallstones DO NOT unlike these pseudostones formed in the intestines.

you can leave a bar of soap in hot sun and it will not melt.

Depends on the soap and what salts are used.  Sodium salts are added to soaps to harden them, which is why they have a higher melting temperature.

bile stones, however, will in fact melt when subjected to heat

I don't know what you are calling bile stones, but real gallstones DO NOT melt.

bile stones will float.

If "bile stones" mean hardened olive oil formed from "liver flushing" then yes.  But again, real gallstones DO NOT float.

people who have proper bile flow, whether healthy to begin with or having restored it through flushes or any other means report that their stool floats.

Stools with heavy fat content, such as hardened olive oil do float.  But the stool is not gallstones, and true gallstones sink. Check the medical texts, this is a PROVEN fact.

this is due to the fact that bile will float.

Bile is liquid, not solid.

the so-called saponification has not been proven.

Yes it has.  It is a well know process and taught in first year college chemistry as various people have pointed out.  I have also posted in the past several medical journal articles explaining the whole process as was witnessed in the studies.

the best evidence provided was that Epsom Salts can produce small amounts of hydroxide. however, this is nowhere near enough to create large amounts of stones that people expel.

Most of the saponification occurs from the bile as evidenced by the various medical studies I posted explaining the process of soap formation in the intestine.

this does not explain how people who don't take any Epsom Salt will pass stones from liver flushing.

Because saponification is a normal process from the reaction of bile on the oils.  But since cholesterol also plays a role in the formation of these pseudostones repeating the "flushes" deplete the ingredients needed to form a lot of these pseudostones in the intestines. This is why less of these pseudostones are produced after a using the "flushes" over and over.  And the fact that people report getting more of these pseudostones with each "flush" than the gallbladder could possibly hold, and they do this day after day even though real gallstones are EXTREMELY slow to grow is just solid proof these are no real t gallstones.  In other words the gallbladder is not large enough to hold cups of stones, which is what people are claiming to have flushed in a single flush.  So even if by some miracle there gallbladder was really able to hold that many gallstones then the gallbladder would have to be completely cleared out.  Being that real gallstones take months to years to form how are they getting cup loads more a day or two later as some people are claiming, then cup loads again a day or two later? This confirms beyond any shadow of a doubt that these are not gallstones since what they are claiming is impossible.  And lab analyses of these pseudostones have confirmed time and time again that these pseudostones are primarily hardened olive oil, which also explains why they are waxy, melt and float.  All characteristics that real gallstones do not exhibit.

the epsom salts are not always necessary in a successful. they are just insurance that the biliary tree will remain relaxed, but for some people they can just ingest oil and lemon juice, or oil and coca cola and they will get good results.

The reason the Epsom salts are not needed is because the bile will still saponify the olive oil as studies have proven.

you made an attempt to explain that bile alone could be responsible for saponification by saying that it can reach a ph of 9. a ph of 9 is not even remotely alkaline enough to saponify olive oil. the lye sap of olive oil is 12-14. 

Not true:

http://www.transtutors.com/homework-help/Biology/Digestive+System/digestion-b...

"Digestion by bile

Bile, secreted from the hepatic cells of liver is yellowish green, alkaline fluid. Its constituents include water, mucin, bile salts and excretory substances such as bile pigments, calcium salts, cholesterol etc. The bile pigments include bilirubin and biliverdin. The bile salts comprise Na₂CO₃ and NaHCO₃ as inorganic salts and sodium taurocholate and sodium glycocholate as organic salts which are all alkaline in nature. The bile neutralizes the acidic chyme and makes it alkaline, provides alkaline medium for the action of pancreatic and intestinal enzymes. The bile decreases the surface tension of lipid and emulsifies the large fat droplets in to small fat globules. This process is called saponification. Due to this, total exposed surface area of small fat globules increases which facilitates their simpler and rapid absorption."

the dye experiment was a failure because there was no dye trapped in the stones. before being exposed to heat the dye was not present in the stones.

Who said it was a failure.  It was clearly stated that as these pseudostones melted (real gallstones do not melt) that red was visible in the melt, which was the red dye used.  Again solid proof that these pseudostones are formed in the intestines as the dye would never gone in to the gallbladder.

melting the stones in heat will of course cause the dye present on the OUTSIDE of the stone to seep in after it melts.

This makes absolutely no sense.  If the dye was on the outside then the pseudostone would have been red on the outside, not green as stated.  But the post stated that these pseudostones were green and the red specks were seen inside the pseudostones as they melted.  Again solid proof that these pseudostones were formed in the intestines and ARE NOT real gallstones.

you can't have it both ways

It is not both ways.  The evidence from that post proves they are pseudostones formed in the intestines.  Again if red dye was on the outside the pseudostones would not be green.  And the dye would be visible on the outside before it migrated to the inside upon melting if this were the case.  But again the red was not seen on the outside but rather the inside proving they were formed in the intestines.

first there was the claim that the stones were green because SOME olive oils are green. in point of fact many oils are yellow, and they put it in green tinted bottles to make it look more appetizing. 

I never said anything about these pseudostones being green from the olive oil.  You must have me confused with someone else.

when that theory was disproved then the argument was shifted to bile pigment causing the color.

Theories are hypotheses backed by evidence.  But I have said since day one that the bile and impurities being trapped in the pseudostones was responsible for the colors.

many people who do flushes, as has been posted numerous times on curezone, have barely any bile flow or their flow is completely occluded and they are jaundiced.

Jaundice has several causes.  What tests did they have run to prove their bile flow was low or absent, and where is the proof?

in the case of jaundiced people who pass green stones, (and who subsequently cure their jaundice -- no small feat mind you) the argument that bile causes the green color falls apart.

Again let's see proof that their jaundice was caused by bile flow obstruction.  Or did they self diagnose?  And this does nothing to disprove the fact that bile causes the color in the pseudostones.

there is no absolute consensus on lab results so far because some reports have yielded that the stones were as you say and some reports have yielded that the composition was consistent with bile stones 

Consistent with merely means contains cholesterol.  And as I have pointed out so many times the pseudostones can also form from a cholesterol-sterol complex.  So more testing has to be done, which includes things like testing for the presence of calcium, texture, hardness, etc. all of which I have never seen in any report claiming these pseudostones were consistent with real gallstones.  But the dye test proved these are not real gallstones as well as the waxy feeling, the floating, the melting, the color, etc., which all are not consistent with real gallstones.

in most cases of chronic severe illness bile flow will be severely occluded,

If a real gallstone gets lodged in the bile ducts from trying a flush bile flow can be occluded as well as the person can develop other problems such as pancreatitis requiring emergency surgery to save their life.

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