Re: Chris needs Some Meat for health. But you haven't tried raw meat as part of your diet yet. Sashimi is a good start. Even Don Quixote eats raw sashimi.

>>"whatever may be the ideal diet for man is and always has been open to discussion/debate..."<<

I agree :-)

>>'but I am of the opinion that raw meat is unpalatable."<<

That *opinion* has a lot to do with your choice of diet for several decades now... If I was vegetarian\vegan for that long, I would also find raw meat unpalatable.

>>"There are also the questions of any ethical/economic grounds for the consumption of meat as well."<<

These ethical and economical concerns, not to mention environmental concerns in very large part, have to do with commercial animal husbandry and processing practices.

For instance, pastured, free range animals do NOT cause environmental issues or problems with sound stewardship practices; the rotation of land use, not over grazing, etc... and are far and away healthier in terms of their lives, but also in terms of the products they produce... CLA levels in raw milk from pastured cows are 500% higher than those in conventional cattle... Omega 3 content competes with the best wild caught salmon, protein quality is through the roof better than conventional animal protein, etc. etc.

It MUST be recognized that *man's* practices and hunger for profit has created these food dilemmas and issues... not the *food* source per se.

>>"By choice, as long as we are not the person who has to kill the animal personally before eating it, then that is acceptable then?"<<

Hey, I grew up around and on farms... we did this as a matter of fact. No problem for me... perhaps for you due to your world view and upbringing.

>>"In the wild it is of course easier to pluck a fruit from a tree than to sneak up behind an unsuspecting animal that has its own self-preservation at heart."<<

Of course it is... that is why native people's ate seasonally... there were seasons for hunting and preservation methods used to store meats, etc.

>>"In my book, anyone that eats meat is of a carnivorous disposition, and the points I made from 1 to 9 are indeed valid points in making any comparison in physiology."<<

I disagree... we are omnivores. That does not mean that *I* believe we are *carnivores* - two entirely different things. But I can see your vested interest in using the argument to defend your *book*.

The 9 points become less valid taking many things into account such as differences in vibrational frequencies, environmental conditions, and nutritional needs... which are quite different, etc.

>>"Alzheimers.
With reference to the B12 issue there is no such thing as a B12 deficiency.......
"The most common basic cause of a natural cobalamin deficiency is a failure to digest, absorb and utilize the various cobalamins (B12) from food and from the intestinal tract as in the case of gastritis or gastroenteritis. The cause of malabsorption is commonly a gastrointestinal disorder and this was known by pathologists way back in the l800s. In this case, one's lifestyle must be assessed and brought into unison with the needs of the living organism.
Furthermore, absorption of the natural B12 coenzymes can take place in the mouth, throat, esophagus, bronchial tubes and even in the upper small intestines, as well as all along the intestinal tract. THIS DOES NOT INVOLVE THE COMPLEX ENZYME MECHANISM FOR ABSORPTION (INTRINSIC FACTOR) IN THE SMALL INTESTINE AS REQUIRED BY CYANOCOBALAMIN. THE COENZYMES ARE ABSORBED BY DIFFUSION FROM MUCOUS MEMBRANES.
...........Dr Virginia Vetrano.
http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html"<<

Cobalamin deficiency then... for indeed coblat is a vital micronutrient in *cobalamin*. Food sources of cobalt include, meat, liver, milk, oysters, clams, and, if grown in soil with cobalt... green leafy vegetables.

>>"Protein deficiencies?

Do you know of anyone with a protein deficiency?

Where then pray do cattle/horses/ and so on, get their protein...........if they do not eat meat?

May be they are just secret meat-eaters.!!"<<

Yes... check out the value behind *specific* amino acid supplementation... especially in the formation of brain and nervous system neurotransmitters, not to mention endocrine function... like tyrosine for the thyroid. Protein metabolism is broken, and or less than efficient, in most all people these days due to the toxic environment.

All grazing animals eat insects, worms and insect larva when they graze - every day - very high sources of protein ounce for ounce. They also get plenty of various proteins from the vegetation... however, I challenge any human to eat as much grass as these animals do... or digest these things properly. We are not designed for it. Not only that we operate on different frequencies than these animals, and have significantly different *terrains* supporting different microflora throughout our digestive tracts that make a significant difference in protein creation and utilization.

Comparing our digestive systems to grazing animals is like comparing apples and oranges... cannot effectively make a case.

>>"My own view (that works in practice) is that Human protein is made from amino acids and not meat protein.
For meat to become human protein, the body has to break down the meat into its constituent amino acids before they become assimilable to the body. This demands huge amounts of digestive energy that could be better spent elsewhere in the body for other purposes of nutrition and drainage.
Many plants (easily digestible) contain the eight essentials, and where the remaining aminos are manufactured from the rest of the diet in the absence of meat."<<

Not all plants are easily digestible in humans without first cooking them... and grasses... just try to eat a meal of grass... I do not think that your digestive system would tolerate that well.

In an ideal world this *may* be possible, however with all of the metabolic toxins in our environment, synthesis of need proteins have been, and are being disrupted. You may have read that when we began to use coal tars, and then petroleum based fertilizers etc. in the 1860's, that we broke the sulfur cycle... sulfur based proteins are essential for a variety of metabolic functions. In addition, your experience with digestion of meats has to do with a *metabolic* type... others have very strong and active digestive system that enable them to lead an omnivores diet just fine.

In addition, and again, organ meats were found most beneficial... muscle meats were generally aged and or preserved - the process aging and predigesting animal proteins before consumption.

Leave a piece of the best meat you can get your hands on... on the counter for a day... let it break down some... come to room temperature, and then eat... digestion of the meat is much, much easier on the system; nutritional value is enhanced by the microflora breaking down the meat.

Again... one size, does not fit all as far as diet is concerned.

>>"I didn't actually mention evolution. Primates are primates, and where their/our diets have been predominantly vegetarian."<<

You may be able to find a *people* that were predominantly vegetarian, however, like primates, you would be hard pressed to find one that was 100% vegetarian, 100% of the time.

>>"There is no simple cure for Alzheimer's, and if it was a simple matter of adding more protein, animal fats, and B12, then the disease would not exist but be eradicated forthwith."<<

As I stated, there are environmental considerations to take into account as well... such as metal toxicity.

>>"I would also say that whatever we believe is the correct and healthiest diet for man is a matter of personal choice, but this discussion/debate was instigated by the member who stated that I needed meat!!"<<

Obviously we are well adapted to an omnivore diet... using what is available in order to survive... and that we *need* meat is a rather confusing statement - I would have stated we need animal products - raw dairy would work... eggs, fish,... etc.... organ meats were generally consumed fresh... and were considered where the bulk of the nutritional value lied before commercial practices made most organ meats and animal lymphatic systems rather toxic.

Muscle meats were traditionally preserved in some manner for storage.

>>"Clearly I am not one to be coerced or patronized into doing anything against my own judgment and freewill."<<

And so it should be... we should all have such freedom to do what we feel is in our best interests for health and well being, including dietary choice.

grz-

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