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Re: 70 different contrast agents? maybe not + other 'thinks n' thoughts' (edit)
unyquity Views: 9,285
Published: 11 years ago
This is a reply to # 1,604,361

Re: 70 different contrast agents? maybe not + other 'thinks n' thoughts' (edit)

Did you know that even various juices such as orange juice and pineapple juice are also used as contrasting agents?:
"Juices "Contrast agents" – orange juice (OJ), grapefruit juice (GJ), apple juice (AJ), pineapple juice (PJ), milk (M), prune juice (P), cranberry juice (CJ), blueberry and apple juice (BAJ), barium EZ Cat 2% w/v (B), dilute barium (50:50 with water) (DB), concentrated gastrografin (GG), ferumoxsil (F) "

There are more than 8 contrasting agents listed right there. Too bad people cannot do their homework before attacking others on these boards. 
The issue of this thread is MRI's for head injury.  A quick review of the use of various juices for contrast  in MRI shows these are only used for gastrointestinal, liver, gallbladder, pancreatic MRI's, not for 'head injuries'. 

Actually, I did some homework and presented data regarding contrast agents that related to head injuries - information you neglected to mention it's validity or relation to your constant references to "70 different contrast agents.

--How many contrast agents are used to detect any type of abnormality in the head?  And what are they?  Do you know?  Or are you avoiding the question (and data I presented), because all the contrast agents used for head abnormalities contain gadolinium --which IS a known danger that you didn't address.

I do not know more than what my research revealed, but your lack of addressing the research and data from a site that is apparently a valid source of information is certainly worth noting.
And yet you yourself, Wombat, Innercalm and your buddies have all taken every opportunity you can to lie about me and to attack me even though it was against TOS and off topic. Yep CZ really brings out the master hypocrites!!!

Actually, I have been VERY careful not to attack you personally.  Any comment I have made has been solely 'what it seems' to me or 'how it appears' to me...that is far different than:
you and the other Chicken Littles
what herb do you have to treat your hypocritical nature
your lies and hypocritical nature
I am not interested in fighting with a delusional lunatic
you and the other hypocrites
The hypocritical monster rears its ugly head again
So not just hypocritical but also an outright liar!!! 
I have not accused you or attacked you personally in any way...I've only offered an opinion of 'what it seems/appears'.  And in light of the very real fact that you've called me a hypocrite, a liar and a delusional lunatic, I feel I've done very well to stay 'on point' to the subject matter.
Personally, I find it unusual that anyone (not in 'debate/ego mode') would need "proof" that exposing the body to a magnetic force 50,000x higher than what is natural on the earth, has the potential to cause 'significant change or damage',
Key word is "potential". Oxygen has the POTENTIAL to kill you. Water has the POTENTIAL to kill you. Echinacea has the POTENTIAL to kill you..................  That is why evidence is nice. So what exactly is the percentage of people harmed by the use of MRIs compared to those not? And how many people have been helped by finding problems that were diagnosed by MRI such as deadly cancers, aneurysms, blockages, etc?
Hver, we're all quite aware that every substance on the planet has the potential to cause harm.  Once again, you continue to ignore the very real fact that the topic of this thread is "are MRI's dangerous"...YOU are the only one that has made an issue of what can happen if people need them and don't have them (if indeed, they are ever "needed", when there are other less invasive tests available)

Yes, you've continually pointed this out, but you OMITTEDEVERY KNOWN OR POSSIBLE DANGER. :(  If you knew one of the common contrast agents could cause life-threatening kidney damage, you didn't inform the OP (original poster)
Again you are being misleading. I do not see how I've been misleading. You have consistently omitted every known or possible danger of MRI's in your posts (unless I have missed something).  Please be specific in your response so I can understand.

First of all you are leaving out the fact that contrasting agents are not always used. No, I was very specific and spent several hours to find what appeared to be very valid information that contrast agents ARE used commonly for determining injury or abnormality in the head.  

And you are leaving out the fact that even if contrasting agents are used they are not all dangerous.
No, I did NOT leave out that information at all.  I presented 70 different contrast agents and information showing that those contrast agents used for determining head injury all contain gadolinium, and gave you ample opportunity to address the research I offered.  And you did not.  So it would seem quite clear that it's you that is leaving out information.

How dangerous is orange juice? Or barium?  
This thread is specifically about the possible dangers of MRI in case of a head injury.  Are juices and/or barium used as contrast agents for determining head injury?  The quick data I perused showed they are not.  If I am wrong, please show me evidence that I am wrong...I truly desire to know & learn.

And if you really want to get down to reality the MRI is not the same thing as the contrasting agent. You and your buddies are confusing the two.
Incorrect, I have seen no evidence of anyone confusing a contrast agent with an MRI.  Can you provide evidence in this thread where I (or any other poster) has confused 'contrast agents' with MRI's?  If so, please do.  If not, then please address why you mentioned something that isn't true.

Just because some surgeries require dangerous anethesia does this make anesthesia the surgery? Of course not.
This thread has nothing to do with the dangers of anethesia (or the dangers of surgeries).  And certainly, no one EVER implied that anesthesia = surgery (anymore than anyone every implied that 'contrast agent' = MRI).

Does this mean that all surgeries require these anesthesias? Of course not.
The use of anethesia in a surgery has nothing to do with the use of a contrast agent in an MRI.  The anesthesia in a surgery is to prevent the patient from feeling the pain of being carved into, and to prevent the body from moving.  The use of a constrast agent in MRI's is to give a more clear image....the two are totally unrelated.
Is life full or risks? Of course.
Of course, and we all do our best to avoid them.  The OP asked what "we all" thought/knew of the dangers of MRIs.  You said there were none.  Others pointed out there are known dangers from the contrast agents, and possible dangers from the strong magnetic field/force

Do these risks include death from things going undiagnosed? Of course.
Of course people die from undiagnosed and diagnosed illness.  But that is NOT THE POINT OF THE THREAD, and not what you or any one else was asked.  YOU brought this point into play when others challenged your statement that MRI's are safe.
So do you and the other Chicken Littles also run around warning about the numerous risks of driving a car including the inhaling of carbon monoxide?
What does the dangers of carbon monoxide or driving a car POSSIBLY have to do with MRI's or this thread?
Or are you only focused on anything I say so you have another opportunity to attack me?
I haven't attacked you, Hver.  I have only offered information about the dangers of MRI's and contrast agents, while attempting to keep this thread "on topic".

I have also explained how I feel that your constant personal insults & attacks in Support forums when other people offer information you do not agree with, causes people not to feel comfortable openly & freely sharing information...and breaks TOS and Posting Guidelines.
If you knew that MRI's are strongly contraindicated in the case of various implants (particularly pacemakers and many other devices or some kinds of metal implants, body piercings, etc), you did not point that out.
LOL!!!! If you have ever been around an MRI unit then you would know that piercings are removed before hand and that people are screened for other potential hazards to the patient and the machine. 
Of course I realize precautions are taken - I also realize people have been harmed or seriously injured when those precautions have been overlooked.  The point is/was, that you didn't point these out...yet you were pointing out other people's omissions.

Oh should I have also have mentioned that it will wipe out your credit cards? That doesn't have anything to do with bodily harm.  

So again have you been warning people about more predominant hazards such as driving or are you only focusing on me to pick another fight like you have in the past?  If you have evidence of me EVER "picking a fight" on CZ, I ask that you post it, or stop making false accusations.  Again, the hazards of driving have absolutely nothing to do with the dangers of MRI's.  

I certainly hope you do not use this type of logic & critical-thinking when addressing issues of health for yourself and others.
You did not point out that MRI's are ordered unnecessarily very frequently;
That was not what the topic or question was about. Perhaps not to you, but the the unnecessary use of MRI's with the potential to cause harm is in line with the topic.
But tell me how often do you tell people that they take herbs like echinacea and goldenseal unnecessarily especially when echinacea can be very unstable and goldenseal has numerous side effects including destruction of the intestinal flora, damage to the intestinal lining and increasing of blood pressure? In fact I see you recommend products all the time that have all sorts of potential risks yet I never see you post warnings about them.  I have never seen any information about how the alleged 'instability' of echinacea could result in harm.  The only goldenseal in powdered form I recommend or utilize is for snuff or bolus...neither in sufficient quantity to possibly raise blood pressure.  In the two internal tinctures where it is included (both Dr. Christopher's formulas), the goldenseal is 1 part of 30 parts, or 1 part of 12 parts.  As you know, the tinctures are absorbed into the bloodstream virtually immediately, so they have virtually no possibility of harming the intestinal flora...and at 1/30th or 1/12th of the tincture dosage, have virtually no possibility of raising bp.    Of course, this has nothing to do with this topic or this thread. 

So what herb do you have to treat your hypocritical nature?  I really wish you'd stop calling me names and attacking my character - it's very hurtful...especially when your apparent intent IS to hurt me somehow.  If you have evidence of my alleged hypocrisy, please post it clearly so I can learn how not to continue.
nor did you point out any of the safer (to me) alternatives that the OP might choose to discuss with their physician).
This is a great example why I would NEVER follow your advice.
Suggesting that one discuss possibly safer alternatives with their physician is a great example why you would NEVER follow my advice?  :::shaking head in wonderment::::
What would you have recommended? As far as I go I would not recommend anything because unlike you I don't think I am psychic. The OP never said what the MRI was for. So I am not going to make other recommendations without knowing more. What if the OP had a brain mass? So I am supposed to guess as to what they have and recommend something like consult the psychic Uny to find out what is wrong with you? I don't think so!!!!!  You could save yourself a LOT of apparent "stress" and me a LOT of time explaining if you would but read what I write.  Two words: MIGHT CHOOSE.  Four words: DISCUSS WITH THEIR PHYSICIAN
Only a complete fool would give advice on alternatives without knowing more about the potential problem. You are a great example of why there are so many dangers on CZ!!!   All I've done is point out the known & potential dangers of MRI's (contrast agents/magnetic fields)...and suggested the OP might want to consult with their physician on the possibility of utilizing a less invasive test.  And now I'm a great example of danger on CZ.  Let me ask you something Hver, since you brought up advising people of alternatives without knowing about potential problems.  Have you ever suggest or advised anyone regarding herbs or other supplements without taking a full medical history, or at least knowing what other herbs, otcs, & pharmaceuticals they're taking?
The original question was not "should I have one?" (which you seem to desperately trying to make be 'the point' of this thread). The original question was "do you all consider them safe?"  You clearly told the OP they are safe. Hence, several people felt that your incomplete information had the very real potential to cause harm. 
Again this was addressed already. Contrasting agents ARE NOT always used, not all are dangerous, and they are not the same thing as the MRI. But keep twisting things all you want to fit your needs. Most of the people on these boards are intelligent enough to understand the differences.  I certainly DO know the difference between an MRI and a contrast agent (and never gave any indication that I didn't).  I also am quite intelligent enough to see clearly that I presented data that appeared to show that contrast agents are almost always used for possible head injury, and those contrast agents that are used for that type of imaging DO contain gadolinium.  And I'm intelligent enought to see that you totally didn't address it (and knowing you, if you had solid evidence I was wrong, you would have presented it).  
For you to assume I need to 'pay you back' or 'get over' something, when I am quite sure I have no need to pay you back or get over anything, is sad (and appears to be some blend of obsessive/compulsion or paranoia).
ROTFLMAO!!!! The hypocritical monster rears its ugly head again. What did you just post about the TOS and attacks?  APPEARS is simply what it appears (seems) to be.  That is not the same as calling someone a liar, a hypocrite or a lunatic.
 Hver, the last time I posted to you was almost a year ago. And other than reading your posts in order to gather information to assist my learning & research (as I do any other posters), I have no more issue with you than any other poster on CZ.  
So how many other posters have you posted long attacking rants about in your forum where they cannot respond to your lies? So not just hypocritical but also an outright liar!!!    Hver, if you are going to call me an outright liar, I INSIST on you posting evidence of the same.  I provided both threads that had to do with your banning, and asked you to present evidence...and you did not.   I have not posted ANY "long attacking rants" to anyone I have banned (which is 2 people, other than yourself), and I did not post a "long attacking rant" about you either...and I already posted a link to EXACTLY what I posted in my last post so people could clearly see what I had openly done and why.  If you felt I did something unfair, you could have posted in the Webmasters forum or in Personal Conflicts...but you didn't and haven't.  And your bringing it up here when it has nothing to do with this thread seems quite indicitive of your personal issues with me, not mine with you.  I've been as open and honest as I know how to be by posting every bit of information involving your banning, exactly as it was written & posted.
And attacking people personally (as you've done to me in this post and to Wombat, InnerCalm, Willowley and virtually everyone that has questioned or disagreed with you) is in direct violation of CureZone TOS...
You mean like your comment about obsessive/compulsion, paranoia? All I did was say that's how your post APPEARED...I did NOT say you had OCD or that you were paranoid.
Again you show how much of a lying hypocrite you really are!!!  Please Hver, I respectfully and politely ask you to stop calling me names and making attacks on my integrity, especially when your intent seems very much meant to hurt me, rather than helping me to overcome something that you are providing evidence for which I am guilty.  
And if you really paid attention to the thread and others I DID NOT start the attacks. 
Yes you DID start the personal attacks - everyone else just offered their opinions on the dangers of MRI's and contrast agents.  You are the one that made personally rude, hurtful, insulting attacks on people and their opinions.  If anybody else attacked you (and not your information), it was only in response to your attacking them.  
Pointing out that MRIs DO NOT always use contrast IS NOT an attack, it IS a FACT!!!  We're all now QUITE aware that not all MRI's use contrast agents.  But you did far more than state "MRI facts" throughout this thread, you made gross and slanderous attacks on virtually everyone's character & intelligence that has disagreed with or challenged you in any way.
But you and the other hypocrites here had to turn that comment in to a debate by claiming that it was an attack then had to derail the topic as they said by changing the topic heading numerous times and making the thread an attack fest on me.
I am not going to bother with addressing the rest of the crap you posted. It is a waste of time.  You have already demonstrated your intent to make this in to a fight with your lies and hypocritical nature. I am not interested in fighting with a delusional lunatic. I come to these boards to help people by passing on the knowledge I have obtained on these topics over the last 31 years I have been working in the field. If helping people is a crime then I am guilty of that. But that is all. I did not start the attacks, the hypocrites accusing me did. And they seem to keep wanting to drag this thread through the mud with personal attacks on me despite complaining about the attacks against people on CZ. These hypocrites really need to take a good long hard look in the mirror then decide why they are really here. Is it to attack me to get their jollies or is it to really help people.
::::sigh::::  Anyone can quickly review this thread and see who has been the instigator of the personal attacks and personal debate.  And again, I respectfully ask you to please stop attacking me personally (especially when you're providing no evidence of your allegations).


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