What are the best/healthiest Replace... 
Roman.Surf.Goddess
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I have MANY fillings ( from having such a bad diet as a child )
when i do get these Amalgam filling removed, what are you supposed to
replace them with?
What are the least toxic/harmful to have installed?- Re: What are the best/healthiest Rep... Aharleygyrl
17 y
20,561
MoreThis is a reply to # 930,627
in my opinion, it is diamondcrown (a crown product that can be used for fillings) or diamondlite. if you pick diamondcrown, be sure the dentist is experienced in it, because it takes a bit more skill. also, go to a dentist who does not drill the fillings, but cuts them out, to minimize mercury exposure.
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=887607#i
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=890577#i
Torrie
- Re: What are the best/healthiest Rep... hanna
17 y
19,790
MoreThis is a reply to # 931,031Torrie, My dentist uses a product from Germany, I should have written down the name.
I know it started with an A and there was I think an M and R in the word.
I went on a German website, but could not find anything. It was amazing all the people there were complaining about the bad dentists. It seems even if you want a good cleaning you have to look for a hygienist (sp?) trained in another country, their training is only 32 hours.
So please let me know if you ever heard about the product. Thanks.
- Hanna, is it "Admira" by any chance?... topcat916 17 y 19,790
- Re: What are the best/healthiest Rep... Aharleygyrl
17 y
20,096
This is a reply to # 931,076
No, i don't know what it is. Germany is a country that is very picky about what it puts on the market. They have good controls and laws in place. I know a Dentist who uses only German materials. But, when I looked up some of those one time, it had some of the bad ingredients that you don't want in dental materials. So, no matter where the product is from, no matter what company makes it, one should look over the MSDS of the product and compare it against known toxic ingredients.
There is HEMA in DiamondBond, which is considered a compound with high risk of causing allergy, but all adhesives contain methacrylate derivatives. I believe DiamondCrown are the best fillings we have to date. In the future, Zirconium fillings might be a better choice as far as durability, but they are not available yet and they will use the same adhesives most likely that are used now. The zirconium oxicde crowns and bridges are supposed to be highly compatible. They are new on the market. Some of them are made in Germany. ZrO2 by itself does appear very compatible, but it will depend some on the other products used with it. I know 3M is using propylene glycol in their preparation. If you find the name of the product, I might be able to get the MSDS.
Myself I do not like hygienists and go to dentists who do not have them. I think they can cause a lot of damage to teeth.
Torrie
- If it was Admira, here is your info: Aharleygyrl
17 y
20,578
- Thank you both, it sounds right n/m hanna 17 y 19,350
- Re: What are the best/healthiest Rep... hanna
17 y
19,790
- Re: What are the best/healthiest Rep... topcat916
17 y
21,688
This is a reply to # 930,627Hi, the ones I hear about and know a few who have them and were very toxic and ill are "cerec porcelain" and another I read very favourably about was "degussa" porcelain. These are one of the most biocompatible I've heard about so far in regards to ceramics. A dentist I know of only uses two main materials. He is studied in oral toxicology and uses cerec(porcelain) or heliomolar HB (composite), as he has observed these seem to be the least reactive to patients in his experience (so far) out of anything else he's used.
The Degussa and Cerec are a special low-temperature fusing ceramic, used as a
long-term, biocompatible dental restoration material. It
can be used as a filling (such as an inlay or onlay) or as
a crown (covering the whole tooth). In some cases, it
has served well as a bridge. Degussa/cerec porcelain is not a
typical porcelain, since they do not "apparently" contain the usual composition of most porcelains. After testing hundreds of people, it was found without exception, these were tolerated very well. None developed allergic or blocking responses either initially or at a later time. This porcelain typically lasts for many years, often the lifetime of the person. It even has a “self-healing” ability to repair itself of micro-nicks and fractures.
The Leaking problems, commonly seen with composite placement, are rare with these porcelains as they do not tend to leach out their components like amalgam/composites. In addition, up-to-date dental techniques can minimize tooth structure loss in preparing the tooth for a porcelain restoration.
Equally important to the type of dental restoration is
the cement and bonding agent used. excellent success with the bonding agent, Optibond, and the cement, Vivadent Dual Cure, Relyx Unichem used to permanently
adhere the Porcelain to tooth structure.
I know two people personally from a forum who are recovering well from Amalgam removal after their replacement with cerec porcelain. one of them had both cerec and Diamond lite also. Both are doing very well. One was especially toxic and chemically sensitive and has full cerec replacments and has had no reactions.
Walter Clifford who runs the serum testing lab in USA, and tested hundreds and hundreds of people on their reactions to dental materials has a list of almost every dental material used in dentistry today also mentions cerec as biocompatible. So far, apparently he has not seen any adverse responses on the tests to this material. Though this does not automatically guarantee that it has never happened or will never happen. I dont believe anything is 100% and there is no such thing as a toxic/chemically free dental material.
The drawback is the expense. Cerec/Degussa, being porcelain are NOT cheap and also need to be done by an experienced dentist.
- Filling material and biocompatibilit... Aharleygyrl
17 y
20,901
This is a reply to # 931,075
Cerec is an indirect all ceramic crown, onlay, or veneer. Most people get direct composite fillings, which are better for small and medium cavities, as they stick to teeth very well. Ceramics (porcelain) do not stick as well and more tooth structure must be missing or drilled to create a hole that will lend the best adhesion.
The blocks of ceramic (porcelain), as well as direct composite materials do have metals. Diamond nearly all of the metals burn off during processing. The Diamond line, the ceramic glass fillers used are of the highest purity so that the usual residual metals have been eliminated through an exacting manufacturing process. But, adhesives always have at least one or more toxic ingredients. It is best to use one that has the least.
Degussa made by Dentsply is also an indirect ceramic onlay or crown. There are many products in this line. Here is an example of part of an MSDS for Ceramco 3. This does not include the adhesive.
DESCRIPTION: Inorganic glass powder with opacifiers and pigments
HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS:
Component CAS No Weight % OSHA/PEL or TWA ACGIH/TLV or TWA
HAZARDS
Sodium Potassium Aluminosilicate Not Available 80- 100 Not Established Not Established Irritant
Tin Oxide 21651-19-4 0-20 Not Established 2 mg/m3 Irritant
Zirconium Oxide (Illumine Powder op. only) 1314-23-4 0-10 5 mg/m³ 5 mg/m³ Irritant
_________________________
DiamondLite fillings have Dimethacrylate esters listed on their MSDS. DiamondBond contains HEMA, a methacrylate, but all adhesives contain methacrylate derivatives. DiamondBond, appears to be the least toxic of all the bonding materials.
You can use this as a reference for materials that are least and most desirable:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=887607#i
____________________________
Always check the MSDS before you put anything in your mouth.
The bonding material typically used with Cerec is RelyX™ Unicem
Here are a couple examples of ingredients in Cerec kits:
2700 3M PARADIGM MZ100 NEW USER KIT FOR CEREC
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
ETHYL ALCOHOL 64-17-5 30 - 40
BISPHENOL A DIGLYCIDYL ETHER DIMETHACRYLATE 1565-94-2 15 - 25
2-HYDROXYETHYL METHACRYLATE 868-77-9 10 - 20
GLYCEROL 1,3 DIMETHACRYLATE 1830-78-0 5 - 15
COPOLYMER OF ACRYLIC & ITACONIC ACIDS 25948-33-8 5 - 15
DIURETHANE DIMETHACRYLATE 72869-86-4 2 - 8
WATER 7732-18-5 2 - 8
___________________________
2700C-S 3M(TM) ESPE(TM) PARADIGM(TM) MZ100 NEW CEREC USER KI...
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
GLASS POWDER 65997-17-3 55 - 65
METHACRYLATED PHOSPHORIC ACID ESTERS None 15 - 25
TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL DIMETHACRYLATE (TEGDMA) 109-16-0 10 - 20
SILANE TREATEAD SILICA 122334-95-6 1 - 5
SODIUM PERSULFATE 7775-27-1 1 - 5
DIURETHANE DIMETHACRYLATE 72869-86-4 2 - 8
WATER 7732-18-5 2 - 8
_________________________________
Heliomolar HB has fluoride and other less desirable ingredients:
Paste of dimethacrylates, copolymer, silicondioxide,
ytterbiumtrifluoride, catalysts, stabilizers and pigments
Hazardous components
< 11 % Bis-GMA
< 5 % Decamethylendimethacrylate
< 8 % Urethanedimethacrylate (UDMA)__________________________________
Biocompatibility reports are individual. As you can see, there are many ingredients in Cerec that could cause a reaction in some people. There are common dental products that most people are compatible with. The Diamond line is one of the best as far as biocompatibility with the general public.
Hal Huggins invented the original serum biocompatibility test. He and Walter once worked together. They had a falling out and Clifford went off on his own. He made his own test based on the same blood test, just that he was only able to obtain partial disclosure from the dental product companies as to the ingredients. Hal had full disclosure, but they only were willing to give it to one person. Has since sold his test to Dr. Levy whom I had the pleasure of meeting a few years ago in L.A. I spoke with Walter a few years ago and also spoke with Scientific Health Solutions (Hal's test) and both of them confirmed that the SHS has full disclosure but the Clifford test does not. Walter is a nice person and he told me that he feels his test is adequate. But, for my money, I went with the SHS test. Biologic Dentists use either of those 2 tests if you have one done.
Torrie
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... #69264
17 y
19,586
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This is a reply to # 931,301You will ultimately keep more of your tooth if you get ceramics because they last much longer and there's no evidence that they bond less well than direct composites. Direct composites shrink and can cause hairline fractures that may not be noticable for years.Composites also are less chemically stable than ceramics so you will have less chemical exposure with ceramics.
Nobody has ever given a full list of the ingredients in diamond composite. Ofcourse a chemist could analyze them and determine the exact composition but until then one has to wonder what they are hiding.Can you explain how the metals "burn off" during processing?
I think the term cerec refers to the procedure of creating crowns and onlays in the dentists office rather than to a specific composition . I think dentists who use the cerac equipment use all kinds of materials so you you need to ask what is being used.- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,839
This is a reply to # 931,371
frank jerome has his beliefs, but many dentists do not feel the way he does about indirect vs direct fillings. i was taught that onlays/inlays are difficult to get a good seal on, have a weak spot and break easier than composites or crowns. jerome's ideas are quite controversial. yes, porcelain and metal do not like to stick to teeth. composites stick very well. so, more tooth structure has to be removed for them. that is why it is best to do them on larger cavities where there is already more structure gone. today's composites do not shrink like those in the past, especially diamondlite and diamondcrown. none of the filling companies disclose the full list of their ingredients due to patent rights, except for Hal Huggins does have a full list. He is the ony one who was ableto obtain it. Walter Clifford has a partial list. dental companies do not want anyone copying their products.
The Diamond range is designed with a unique and patented medical grade resin PEX that is proven highly biocompatible in numerous tests. The ceramic glass fillers used are of the highest purity so that the usual residual metals have been eliminated through an exacting manufacturing process. The results are dental materials with superior biological and physico-mechanical properties.
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=890577#i
cerec is a chairside cad/cam. it can be done in the office or in a lab. cerec is the procedure, but also refers to the dental blocks crowns/inalys/veneers are made out of. other materials can be used. i was giving a general answer. DRM does not disclose it's procedure for burning off metals. It is another guarded secret. You have to understand that companies that make dental materials guard their patents and manufacturing techniques well. They always have. It is a very competitive market. This is all the info about it:
The CEREC team at Sirona is fortunate to have partnered with three dental materials manufacturers. Vita manufactures CEREC Blocs by Sirona and VITABLOCS® Mark II for CEREC®. These blocks are made of feldspathic porcelain. Ivoclar-Vivadent produces Empress CAD® leucite-reinforced porcelain blocks. 3M™ ESPE™ makes the Paradigm™ MZ100 composite block for CEREC. Once again, Sirona has put to use our philosophy of the "Synergy of the Best" to bring to you CEREC by Sirona and materials by these fine manufacturers.
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
19,559
This is a reply to # 931,388Where did you study law? If a substance is patented, it's contents automatically become public information. You can't have a patent and keep the exact chemical composition of the patented material secret. That's the law ,always has been.
What is PEX and what else in in diamond products?Direct composites still shrink which can cause hairline fractures and bacterial contamination .Most dentists say that direct composites last eight to ten years, so if you are twenty and are replacing your childhood fillings, by the time you are forty five your teeth will have been drilled several times and will have increasingly larger fillings and might fracture or have nerve damage from all that drilling and the anesthetics.
I was told by several dentists that I needed many crowns several years ago. The one I crowned is the one that died . I did nothing to the others and they are still fine.Other people I know have had the same experience and this leads me to agree with Dr Jerome that the reason dentists do crowns is because it's the largest revenue source.Why would an artificial tooth be better than the one you were born with? Would artificial arms be better than my own arms?
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,448
This is a reply to # 932,159
huggins has full disclosure and walter was only given partial, because companies just don't give out that info and hal was very lucky to have obtained an agreement with them. scientific health solutions, walter clifford, hal and my dentist were the ones who told me.
to learn about PEX, read the DRM site or write or call the company. i read an interview with the inventor on their site that their composite fillings can last up to 22 years.
most dentists do not do inlays/onlays or crowns unless substantial tooth structure is gone; they prefer composites for most fillings. when the fillings are bigger, sadly, they prefer mercury fillings unless they have to do a crown.
i have never had a white filling shrink and fracture a tooth, in fact mercury is much more apt to do that. ,y dentist doesn't like them for several reasons and one is that he says they have a weak spot and can break. he prefers crowns.
most dentists do crowns before onlays/inlays because they they feel they are stronger. but, if i had a choice, i would try onlays/inlays before crowns on my teeth if at all possible. often times the dentist finds himself with a tooth that he feels is too big for a composite or an inlay/onlay and has to go with a crown.
i am aware of jerome's ideas, but he is controversial and i was taught differently. most dentists charge the same or close to the same for inlays/onlays as they do for crowns. many dentists simply have a harder time fitting indirect composites. i have met a couple people who had crowns for 50 years, so they do not always fail. one thing, though, they should be replaced every 10 years is what a dentist told me. that probably helps their lifespan.
i am not interested in a debate.
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... brainiac8
17 y
19,500
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This is a reply to # 932,213How do define "debate"? When someone disagrees with you ,I guess they are debating whereas when you disagree with them you are not debating .In other words you have the bottom line . Is this because you are a dentist or scientist or just smarter than everyone else?
If Walter Clifford has analyzed dental material and determined their exact structure, there is no reason he can't disclose the information to the public.
Many insurance companies cover fillings and crowns but not lab manufactured onlays ,so dentists are more likely to suggest crowns.- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,366
This is a reply to # 932,917
1. most manufacturers do not tell the full composition, or amounts of them, in their fillings. the only two i am aware of who possess such info, who are not the manufacturer, is clifford and huggins (huggins sold the test to dr levy a few yrs back). clifford's is not full disclosure, but partial. neither of them are allowed to disclose the compostions, as they signed an agreement. if you want to hear this info for yourself, call walter and/or scientific health solutions. that is how i found out, and from my dentist. they told me about 6 yrs ago.
2. i post info and answer questions. i do not disagree with people personally
3. we all have opinions and the reason debate rooms were created was for those who wish to argue their points. i do not wish to argue mine, just take it for what it's worth. post your side and i'll post mine. we can all learn from each other.
Update: 3M will give full disclosure if you sign a non-disclosure form.
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
19,369
This is a reply to # 933,272If the manufacturers are witholding the specific composition of their products and the process of synthesis, they must not have a patent on Diamond products , because if they did , this information would be open to the public.
If Clfford and Huggins signed a confidentiality agreement with the manufacturers of Diamond products, I don't trust their conclusions.- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,454
This is a reply to # 934,468
that is what was told to me, that all filling manufacturers do not disclose the full ingredients. hal, i trust only because he is known as the father of the amalgam removal movement and i would not be alive if not for him and would have never known mercury was in fillings. he wrote the first book on it in the US and has studied it for 30 yrs or more.
update, 3M corp will disclose full ingredients if you are willing to sign a non-disclosure form. there may be others that do this for you, as well, but most do not. in the US, only hazardous ingredients are required to be disclosed.
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
19,326
This is a reply to # 934,573Even if the manufacturer refuses to disclose the chemical composition of a filling material that is not patented, a chemist can determine the composition.I think I'll go to the library and find out if diamond products are patented.
Before I finish my replacements,I want to be assred in writing that my dental work does not contain barium, phenol , formaldehyde and several other nasty chemicals.Verbal assurances are not worth the paper they're not written on , especially when given by a dentist.- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,861
This is a reply to # 935,161i don't know if it is patented or not, i can't remember. why don't you just call the manufacturer and ask? they have what they call proprietory ingredients. i know they don't tell anyone their composition, except hal was able to get it and walter got some. you can get an MSDS listing the hazardous ingredients. good luck with finding fillings that do not have the ingredients you do not want. i do not think you will find any. some people get zinc oxide, that you have to replace every 6 months to a year, but they are not free of toxins, either. zirconium oxide might be ok if and when they come out with it for fillings, depends on what other ingredients they add.
DRM Research Laboratories
29 Business Park Drive
Branford, CT 06045 USA
Phone: 203-488-5555- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
19,376
This is a reply to # 935,223I plan to go to the law library and do a patent search for Diamond products.
If Walter Clifford is a chemist, he does'nt need to ask companies for their ingredients; he can do his own tests.
Different products have different ingredients and they're not all equally toxic.
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
19,376
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,861
- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
19,454
- Expand 20 messages, 21 to 40 of 53 #69264
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... brainiac8
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... chris10
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... Aharleygyrl
17 y
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- Re: Filling material and biocompatib... #69264
17 y
19,586
- Filling material and biocompatibilit... Aharleygyrl
17 y
20,901
- Re: What are the best/healthiest Rep... Aharleygyrl
17 y
20,561
Expand 13 messages, 41 to 53 of 53 Aharleygyrl
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