Well, first of all, I think the fact that you care enough to understand right and wrong already means that you have the kind of conscience (understanding of right and wrong) God wants us to have. The problem is that the concept of conscience is not not taught (for the most part, it is disregarded all throughout society) in favor of social moral systems (norms), and in Christianity, standards are set by the BOOK and who each of us allows to interpret it for us (not that we should allow ANYONE to interpret and determine our devotion (PERSONAL devotion, PERSONAL relationship). In Christianity, we are taught to all be the same and conform to the book and it's STANDARD interpretation of it by the pastor's, scholars and spectator's (all of society whether they really do have love in their heart or not).

A good thing to familiarize yourself with is a subject called MORAL PHILOSOPHY (it's about the many interpretations of goodness to mankind). It is not necessary to make a study of it, just be aware that there really are different standards of goodness that are chosen by man usually for self serving purposes such as fame/ego (a leader of a group will enjoy setting standards for a whole group in order to achieve fame, but also NEED to set those standards because of their own seared conscience). If I did the things that some people do, I would also develop a NEED to act like a bigshot and set standards that would shame them or make them feel guilty so that I could feel better about myself. Most often, people are unaware that we do this to each other (or am I just naive?). I recently saw a movie that I first saw 40 yrs. ago (The Americanization of Emily). James Garner stars as an American military protog'e to a General and when asked what his religion is, he answers that he is a practicing coward and says that he is "not interested in what is good and right and true, I let God worry about the truth" (John 14:6, Jesus says that He is THE TRUTH). Pilate said to Jesus "What is truth?" (John 18:38), which seems to be exactly what humanity's attitude is about the significance of truth to everyday life. Scripture can be very philisophical at times, but we can only understand properly if we choose to hear ONLY what GOD is saying to EACH OF US instead of wanting to hear what the scholars and pastors say.

Putting less importance on others is a good start, but de-emphasizing (self abasement, Colossians 2:18 and 2:23) YOUR own significance to The Lord is not what The Lord wants (when you say "and more to God" you are leaving yourself out of the picture, God wants YOU/self/conscience). Unfortunately, people (society) cannot see this one point (People are FOLLOWERS) and don't SEE (don't WANT to because of fear) what is actually printed on paper (we rather make our own rules) mainly because it is almost always ignored that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of CONSCIENCE and that "I am who I am" wants us to know SELF (we fear knowing SELF). People whose conscience or ego needs defense are in the habit of imposing shame, guilt, humiliation and intimidation on others in order to manipulate them and set standards for them in order to glorify themselves (they are PREDATORS). If you are not a predator (I can tell, you're not because you care), you're Godly, and the only thing necessary to walk with God so that you will be able to return to Him in heaven (have everlasting life) is trust in Him as The Savior.

After recieving salvation, being fed on the MILK of the word is necessary for any Christian, but as the Christians in Hebrews 5:14 were told, "Solid is for the MATURE..." who can DISTINGUISH (as a dichotomy) between "...good and evil"/right and wrong) because of the tree that the earthly parents ate from) and some have made shipwreck (damage needs repair) of their personal relationship (1 Timothy 1:19).

After Adam and Eve disobeyed God, we were not abondoned, only marooned (shipwrecked) and must learn to endure as Paul did in order that our fellow human beings may also see the light and return with us to our heavenly Father. We are to live as visitors to this world, and believing in the nobility of this world is misleading.

"'sounds' about right. so we then can't call out for God as we wouldn't know that God existed would we?."

- I don't know where you draw that conclusion from... People knew of God way before Jesus existed.

" what i meant was if Jesus was not mortally wounded. if he 'died' on on the cross but he survived spiritually that would be down to interpretation and ones beliefs. for instance 'martyrdom'. it is a possibility isn't it?"

- Everyone considers his beliefs a fact. Scientists who don't believe in Spirit, or the fact that physical death is not an end of life, are probably more stubborn then those who don't agree with them. But I don't see any connection between martyrdom and death and christianity or believing in Christ... Jesus didn't inspire me by his dying, but by his doing.

" so you are saying then that 'Jesus giving his life for all mankinds sins' wasn't the basis of Christianity.? are you sure about that?"

- I cannot be sure of something I didn't do or create. Christian church may say or claim whatever it wants, and it has nothing really to do with Jesus. I don't think that Jesus asked anyone to believe in God or himself because of him giving his life away for our sins...

"do you feel then than 'man' has taken upon himself how one should become a Christian (hence the Denominations)."

- Yes, I think so. There is not much of a difference between an ego driven ambitious political leader, and some self proclaimed "christian" leader. Like I said - faith is in the heart, not in externals.

"in the light of which do you think then that makes it a 'mockery' of Christianity? or is it simply put down to different interpretations? Christianity, 'the way i see it)?' Tom."

Yes, most of "christianity" today is a mockery of itself and certainly a distortion of Christ's teachings; if not in the way it is communicated, then certainly in it's applications. This doesn't mean that all Christians have distorted beliefs, but I do think that most of them do. Wether it is communism, dogmatic (in worst sense) christianity or any other uninteligent belief applied badly, it is a distortion of human's need for meaning and love. I will refer again to Jungs answer when asked about Jungian analysis - "I am glad I am not a Jungian therapist". I think that given an opportunity, Jesus would also say that he's glad he's got nothing to do with today's "Christian" churches. Just like when he kicked out thiefs and traders out of places of prayer and worship.

"His mission was to rescue man from their shortcomings and offer them a way to get into the Kingdom of Heaven... "

I wouldn't call Jesus' life on earth a "rescue". To me, "rescue" suggests an unhealthy relationship where one imposes his values on another in order to rescue him. Rescue typically means that the rescued person is not capable of anything, not even of asking for help (like some who is in coma after a car accident), so they need to be rescued, in which case their fate is totaly in the hands of the rescuer. This, as much as we think of it mostly as good, is usually the way of the evil - especially when one tries to suggest to another that he needs to be rescued, implying that the victim in question is pretty much brain-dead (when they are not).

Jesus came as an answer to people's prayers. That is not a rescue any more. That is completely unselfish help, so unselfish that He didn't care that it could cost him dearly - torturous pain and his life.

I think that today's organized religion is based in essence on same principals as any other manipulation of the masses: some form of co-dependent relationship. And there are many ways to make that happen, one of which is suggesting to people that they are sinners in every respect and therefore need to feel guilty. Then, all that is left is to bring in someone (anyone!) who will position himself above those poor sinners and you have a dictatorship going.

 

 

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