Please validate website claim and my... 
mtl777
7 y
1,991
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Hey folks, I came across this page...
http://www.purehealthdiscounts.net/silvertruth.htm
It says that home made Colloidal Silver using electrolysis method is worthless as it is just ionic silver, not true Colloidal Silver .
What do you think of this? It disappoints me if true because I have been making my own Colloidal Silver at home using electrolysis with .9999 silver electrodes, a 30-volt adaptor, some current-limiting diodes, and air bubbler. After cooking in this manner, I filter the liquid to remove the dark particles. Then I boil the liquid in a glass pan with a little raw honey. Finally, I filter it again and this is the colloidal silver that I consume.
Am I making only ionic silver with this method? And is ionic silver really worthless?
More
- Re: Please validate website claim an... grizz
7 y
2,163
This is a reply to # 2,350,026mti,
Sorry, but you (like all of us) are the victim of marketing BS & deception designed to sell their products over others.
In actual fact, it is the Ionic Silver made by all home generators that is the superior version that kills all pathogens, and it is the "True Colloidal" that is inert. I have all the research to prove this once & for all. Don't waste your time trying to convert your perfect ionic into Particle Silver.
See the chapter, Truths & Lies about Colloidal Silver here:
http://tinyurl.com/colloidal-silver-resources
Grizz
- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,776
This is a reply to # 2,350,029Awesome! Tons of great info in that link you provided. Thank you so much!
I'm glad to have finally found the truth about CS. My confidence in my home-made CS has been restored.
Just one thing. I realize that I've been doing something wrong -- boiling the liquid and adding honey. This will turn the ionic silver into particulate silver, which is not what I want. I should forego this step then.
- Re: Please validate website claim an... grizz
7 y
1,915
This is a reply to # 2,350,073Advertisement
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Yes, please do forego your steps to produce particle silver. You want pure Ionic Silver.
THAT is what kills all the pathogens - bacteria, virus & fungus.
THAT is what is carried by our metalloproteins through the stomach and into the cells of our body.
Particle silver is hit or miss. It is like dumping rubber balls into a river, maybe they will hit something, maybe not.
Grizz
- Re: Please validate website claim an... grizz
7 y
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- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,776
- Re: Please validate website claim an... Esstee
7 y
1,993
This is a reply to # 2,350,026RE: It says that home made Colloidal Silver using electrolysis method is worthless as it is just ionic silver, not true Colloidal Silver .
A. I'd begin by asking what true Colloidal Silver is, and why anyone would appeal to such a label.
RE: ...Then I boil the liquid in a glass pan with a little raw honey. Finally, I filter it again and this is the colloidal silver that I consume.
A. Can I ask why you're adding honey to your solution?
RE: Am I making only ionic silver with this method? And is ionic silver really worthless?
A. I would answer that your solution was likely predominately ionic following initial processing, and until the admission of the honey. After which, the silver components will likely undergo transformation.
That said, I'd question the overall effectiveness of such a solution with respect to it's reactive potential. ie, bio-reactivity
PS. the term True Colloidal Silver was coined by a Colloidal Silver manufacturing company several years ago in part of a marketing campaign built around the fear of Argyria.
The campaign which was carried out over the course of several years and across several sources, was intended to convince the general public that the so-called HVAC(high Voltage AC) solutions were the only solutions worthy of being called "true colloidal silver. Which ironically, was subject to their own proprietary process method.
That said, and as time went-on, this same company would engage in numerous tests and reports aimed at confusing the public on the realities of Colloidal Silver Solutions. That is until, the DYI market responded in kind with various home and lab tests to disprove the claims that Ionic Silver was anything less than the so-called True Colloidal Silver solutions. But even moreso, proving to be better than the alternative in all but the most obscure of conditions(environments). And so I'd recommend taking such claims with a rather large grain of salt if I were you.
Having said that, I wouldn't recommend throwing the baby out with the bath water either when it comes to Particulate Silver solutions. ie, these type of solution can prove extremely useful in cases where either gut or preparations requiring salination and/or ph adjustments are required. ie, nasal or eye rinses, stomach flu's or food poisoning etc. etc.
Hope this helps
- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,856
This is a reply to # 2,350,060"RE: It says that home made Colloidal Silver using electrolysis method is worthless as it is just ionic silver, not true Colloidal Silver .
A. I'd begin by asking what true Colloidal Silver is, and why anyone would appeal to such a label."
I found the answer in the link that Grizz provided.
"RE: ...Then I boil the liquid in a glass pan with a little raw honey. Finally, I filter it again and this is the colloidal silver that I consume.
A. Can I ask why you're adding honey to your solution?"
Because until today I was just blindly following what I read somewhere on how to make CS. ;)
Now I realize that both boiling the solution and adding honey to it will turn the ionic silver into elemental silver, which is not what I want. So I am going to eliminate this step from my process.
By the way, I'm using a Canadian Maple Leaf coin (1 oz .9999 silver) at the anode and a 14 gauge .9999 silver wire at the cathode. Questions:
1. How long should I cook to produce a 20 ppm solution?
2. Do I need a relay/timer to switch the polarity of the electrodes every 5 minutes?
Thanks Esstee!
-
Re: Please validate website claim an... Esstee
7 y
2,082
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RE: Now I realize that both boiling the solution and adding honey to it will turn the ionic silver into elemental silver, which is not what I want. So I am going to eliminate this step from my process.
A. Well if it's any consolation, I too believed this when I first started making CS, and so I guess we could say you were not alone in doing so.
That said, I learned from experience that the Colloidal Silver made with additives(reducing agents), was not as effective as the solutions made without them, and so I opted out of using this in my own process.
On the matter of heating one's water however, I'd say the prognosis is quite different. ie, while I too believe there is a reduction process at work in doing so, I'd add that there appear to be more benefits in heating ones water *during processing, than not.
And so without throwing copious chemistry terms at you, I'll just conclude by saying that in cases where the objective is to get Colloidal Silver into the bloodstream(by holding under the tongue) as effeciently as possible, then you would likely find better results with heat processed CS than not.
RE: By the way, I'm using a Canadian Maple Leaf coin (1 oz .9999 silver) at the anode and a 14 gauge .9999 silver wire at the cathode. Questions:
A. In order to calculate the projected run-times for 20ppm, you'll first need to find out the total wetted surface area of the coin in question. - which would include both sides. That said, once you've found your surface area, you can use the following calculator to estimate your run-time and target ppm.
In addition to this, depending on the size of your reaction vessel, it may be advantageous for you to use two small cathodes(on each side of the coin) so as to maximize the reaction surface area during production. Otherwise, the initial ramp-up stages won't likely include the entire coin - thus slowing the overall process
RE: 1. How long should I cook to produce a 20 ppm solution?A. the good news is that you won't likely ever exceed 20ppm when making colloidal silver since the solution properties won't allow for anything more than 18- 19ppm at room temp. And so in this regard, the process is somewhat self-regulating. ie, if you push the solution beyond this, then the silver will either precipitate(drop out), plate on the glass or form what looks like silver puddles at the surface.
However, I'd also add that it is possible to exceed 20ppm with heat processed solutions. The downside however, is that the silver will drop out once the solution cools and saturation levels return to normal (in most circumstances).
However, and with that being said, one of the most important tools in making your own CS is that of a good stirring system. To which I'd add, while I'm sure bubblers can and will agitate the water, it remains that it is only with mechanical(magnetic) stirrering that the ions can be propagated away from the anode and toward the cathode. Which will in turn, greatly help in reducing the amount of oxide formation during processing(collecting at the bottom).
RE: 2. Do I need a relay/timer to switch the polarity of the electrodes every 5 minutes?A. No you do not. In fact, I'd argue that it is better to process CS using fixed polarity as this promotes the aggregation of oxides on the cathode. Which in can in turn, be removed(by cleaning) rather than to be released into the solution.
In addition to this, the most important aspect of CS production would be that of a current control in your circuit. As this will stop the phenomenon known as runaway current, and keep your particle size(formation) under control throughout processing.
PS. you can find a schematic on assembling a similar circuit bellow as well as a parts list in the following link:
Hope this helps
- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,800
This is a reply to # 2,350,081"On the matter of heating one's water however, I'd say the prognosis is quite different. ie, while I too believe there is a reduction process at work in doing so, I'd add that there appear to be more benefits in heating ones water *during processing, than not."
Does the heating need to be done during processing? I do it after processing because I don't have a hot plate. I just boil the solution after processing. Is that not alright?
"A. In order to calculate the projected run-times for 20ppm, you'll first need to find out the total wetted surface area of the coin in question. - which would include both sides. That said, once you've found your surface area, you can use the following calculator to estimate your run-time and target ppm."
A nice and useful calculator! Just what we DIYers need. Thank you!
"In addition to this, depending on the size of your reaction vessel, it may be advantageous for you to use two small cathodes(on each side of the coin) so as to maximize the reaction surface area during production. Otherwise, the initial ramp-up stages won't likely include the entire coin - thus slowing the overall process"
I could make the cathode into a "U" shape and position it such that it's kind of surrounding (but not touching) the silver coin, right?
"one of the most important tools in making your own CS is that of a good stirring system. To which I'd add, while I'm sure bubblers can and will agitate the water, it remains that it is only with mechanical(magnetic) stirrering that the ions can be propagated away from the anode and toward the cathode. Which will in turn, greatly help in reducing the amount of oxide formation during processing(collecting at the bottom)."
Have you ever produced a solution that did not form any dark particles that you had to filter? Me never. It may be because I've always left it running too long. I start it in the morning before I leave for work and stop it about 10 hours later when I return home from work. I wonder if the CS I'm making in this manner is still good?
"the most important aspect of CS production would be that of a current control in your circuit. As this will stop the phenomenon known as runaway current, and keep your particle size(formation) under control throughout processing."
I'm already using a current limiting diode in my setup. But seeing your diagram, it seems that I placed the diode on the wrong side - the anode. Your diagram has the diode on the cathode. Well, I just followed an instruction I read that said to 'insert the diode in series with the (+) lead of the generator (anode). The stripe on the diode must point toward the power supply side, not toward the silver electrode or the alligator clip leading to the electrode.' Is this instruction wrong? I hope not, and I hope it doesn't matter which electrode you place the diode on. ;)
- Re: Please validate website claim an... Esstee
7 y
1,972
This is a reply to # 2,350,088
RE: Does the heating need to be done during processing? I do it after processing because I don't have a hot plate. I just boil the solution after processing. Is that not alright?
A. In this particular case, the answer is yes, as the changes and benefits that come with the admission of heat are specific to the chemical interactions that takes place during processing.That said, here's a short list of some of the observed changes that take place with a solution processed at 100c;
- Improved conductivity - (reduction of ramp-up processing times)
- Increase in saturation(ppm) - (effective ppm)
- Reduction of oxide formation at the anode - (moving free oxygen out of solution)
- Increasing oxide solubility - (promoting dissolution of silver oxides)
- Reduction(conversion) of silver ions into elemental silver at cathode - (pure silver instead of silver oxides)
Therefore and with this in mind, I'd add that the inherent changes that take place with the admission of heat are significant in terms of the characteristics(quality) of the solution. ie, a heat processed colloidal silver solution will most often exhibit unsurpassed clarity and cleanliness(containing no deposits).
Likewise, it has been my observation that these types of solutions are far more effective(potent) than with their room temp counterparts in cases where systemic treatments are concerned. Which I conclude to be the result of the higher ionic content that come with them, and what advantages this would have on the diffusion of the CS into the blood stream - transdermal(under tongue, inhalation etc).
RE: A nice and useful calculator! Just what we DIYers need. Thank you!
A. I just realized that this calculator is limited to wire gauge calculations, and so I'm thinking this warrants the need for an upgrade to accommodate other anode types(coins, bullion etc)
RE: I could make the cathode into a "U" shape and position it such that it's kind of surrounding (but not touching) the silver coin, right?
A. I'm thinking this could work, so long as the final assembly is fine-tuned for the setup(distance between electrodes, total volume etc). Though I'd add that this would likely limit you to a fixed setup.RE: Have you ever produced a solution that did not form any dark particles that you had to filter?
A. Absolutely. I stopped making dirty CS the day I incorporating heat in my process :)
RE: ...It may be because I've always left it running too long.
A. I'd say this is a very good guess. As over processing room temp CS will cause the particles to agglomerate and drop out of suspension. That said, it's been my observation that the only way to avert this is to clean your cathode excessively during processing and hold short of the theoretical saturation limit(ppm). - ie, many DYI systems will target between 10 and 15ppm
RE: I start it in the morning before I leave for work and stop it about 10 hours later when I return home from work. I wonder if the CS I'm making in this manner is still good?
A. If you can provide all the specifications for your setup, I think we can estimate what your total run-times should be with maximum saturation(ppm) in mind. - incl. voltage and current
Following this, you could(for example) add a timer to your circuit. Though I'd add that this alone won't likely be sufficient in producing a clean solution in cases where maximum saturations are the goal(ppm). - and so one common method in circumventing this, is to hold short in processing(ppm) and placing the solution on a slow heat so as to evaporate and raise the concentration. - an old but useful trickRE: I'm already using a current limiting diode in my setup. But seeing your diagram, it seems that I placed the diode on the wrong side - the anode. Your diagram has the diode on the cathode.
A. The current limiter can be placed on either side of the circuit(pos/neg). That said, the thing of importance with these is that the polarity of the diode must be observed, otherwise it will not limit the current. - you can test this with a simple multimeter by measuring the current flow during processing. - ie, if the current tops out(limited), then you know you're in good hands. If not, then the diode is likely wired-in backwards
RE: The stripe on the diode must point toward the power supply side, not toward the silver electrode or the alligator clip leading to the electrode.' Is this instruction wrong? I hope not, and I hope it doesn't matter which electrode you place the diode on. ;)A. Some current limiting diodes have indicator strips on them, whereas others(such as J-series) do not. That said, it's always best to test your circuit beforehand, if not only for piece of mind.
- hope this helps
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- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,741
This is a reply to # 2,350,143Thank you so much for answering all my questions! Really appreciated.
"I stopped making dirty CS the day I incorporating heat in my process :)"
How much heat do you apply?
Do you have a link to the hot plate product that you use?
"If you can provide all the specifications for your setup, I think we can estimate what your total run-times should be with maximum saturation(ppm) in mind. - incl. voltage and current"
Other than 30 VDC power adaptor, air bubbler, Canadian Maple Leaf silver coin for anode, 14 gauge .9999 silver wire (4 inches long) for cathode, current limiting diode (I use 0.3 mA because of my long run time but I also have 1 mA that I can use), what else have I not mentioned? Oh, the distance between electrodes is 2 inches, the volume of water is about a quart (32 fl oz). Let me know if you need any other details. I would like to achieve 20 ppm or close to that.
Thanks again!
- Re: Please validate website claim an... Esstee
7 y
1,931
This is a reply to # 2,350,155
RE: How much heat do you apply?
A. The answer will take into account the total volume of water(heat load), and applied wattage. ie, in my own case, I make 2L of CS at a time, and so the stirrer I'm using has a 900w heating element, which I run at maximum throughout the process. There is of course a procedure involved in getting the water up-to temperature, and starting the process, though for the sake of keeping things simple, the temperature of the distilled water is at/or around 100c throughout processing.
RE: Do you have a link to the hot plate product that you use?
A. I'm currently using a VWR 12365-382 heated stirrer after having gone through several lower end alternatives that have either failed or simply weren't up to the task(heat-wise).
Overall, I like this particular unit for it's simplicity and durability. It has a true ceramic top(vs enamel) which helps buffer the higher temps and makes cleaning relatively easy. It's also one of the few 110v units that provided 900w of heat(for larger batches). - ie, making 2L of CS in approximately 40mins possible.
That said, if you're in the market for a heater stirrer, I wouldn't recommend anything less than 500w (heat) for anything up-to 1L and 750w and above for anything up to 3L
There's also the matter of a stir-bar, which is relative to the size and shape of the vessel your using.
RE: Other than 30 VDC power adaptor, air bubbler, Canadian Maple Leaf silver coin for anode:
A. Canadian Maple Leaf: OD (dia.): 38mm (1.5in)
Area of a circle: A=πr2=π·19≈1134mm p/side
Total surface area: 2268 sq. mmCurrent: 0.3 or 1.0 mA
Volume: 32 ozMISSING: Total wetted area - aprox. coin submerged (percentage)
QQ. how is your coin suspended in the solution?- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,800
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"MISSING: Total wetted area - aprox. coin submerged (percentage)
QQ. how is your coin suspended in the solution?"
The entire coin is suspended underwater by means of a 14 gauge .9999 silver wire attached to the coin through a hole I drilled near the top of the coin. In this manner, there is about 1.25" of the silver wire submerged in the water.
- Re: Please validate website claim an... Esstee
7 y
1,991
This is a reply to # 2,350,185
RE: The entire coin is suspended underwater by means of a 14 gauge .9999 silver wire attached to the coin through a hole I drilled near the top of the coin. In this manner, there is about 1.25" of the silver wire submerged in the water.
A. Based on this, the estimated time to 19ppm would be aprox:
@ 0.3 mA = 15 hrs
@ 1.0 mA = 4.5 hrsHowever, it's important to note that these figures do not account for the ramp-up time required for the electrolytic cell(glass, water and electrodes) to reach full potential. - that is to say, that the calculation only accounts for processing under ideal conditions(or current limit), and so an accurate calculation would require the addition of data points taken throughout the ramp-up stage(w/multimeters) to compensate for the time required for the cell to reach its full potential(ie, 30v @ 0.3 mA running). - leaving us with a minimum time reference at best . ie, the minimum time required to reach full saturation @ 0.3 mA would be aprox. 15 hours, type thing
Beyond this, and at the risk of being the contrarian, I'm not sure running your anode so far bellow potential is helpful either. ie, in cases such as these(electrolytic process) the processing dwell time becomes a contender in the overall quality of the solution. IOW. the longer it takes to process, the greater the potential for bi-products to occur in processing. - such is the nature of the chemistry
Therefore, and with that being said, I'd recommend(if possible) that you consider adding a mechanical stirrer(even a passive one) and running your anode closer to its potential(@ 1 mA p/sq in). Which works out to be along the lines of 3.5 mA - putting your process time in the 1.2 - 1.5 hr range.
Hope this helps.
- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,763
This is a reply to # 2,350,366Great! Thank you so much, Esstee!
Maybe I should learn how to calculate the run time. Let's start with the total wetted area. Please verify my formulas.
D = Diameter of coin = 39.97 mm
T = Thickness of coin = 3.29 mm
d = diameter of 14 AWG wire = 1.63 mm
l = length of 14 AWG wire submerged in water = 1.25" = 31.75 mm
Wetted area of coin = (Pi x D^2 / 4) x 2 + Pi x D x T
= Pi x D^2 / 2 + Pi x D x T
= Pi x (D^2 / 2 + D x T)
= 3.1416 x (39.97^2 / 2 + 39.97 x 3.29)
= 2922.64 mm2
Wetted area of 14 AWG wire = Pi x d x l + pi x d^2 / 4
= Pi x (d x l + d^2 / 4)
= 3.1416 x (1.63 x 31.75 + 1.63^2 / 4)
= 164.67 mm2
Total wetted area = 2922.64 + 164.67
= 3087.31 mm2
That's about all I know how to calculate. ;)
Could you please give me the formula for the rest of the calculations?
Thanks again!
- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,685
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Hi Esstee, forget about giving me the rest of the formulas for calculating the total run time. I realized you already posted a worksheet containing the formulas. I will study that later.
For now, could you please verify if my total wetted area calculation is correct? And how do I use this wetted area calculation with the nice ppm/run time calculator that you created? I'm trying to use your calculator but it seems the result it is giving is wrong.
Thanks!
- Re: Please validate website claim an... Esstee
7 y
1,824
This is a reply to # 2,351,559
RE: For now, could you please verify if my total wetted area calculation is correct? And how do I use this wetted area calculation with the nice ppm/run time calculator that you created? I'm trying to use your calculator but it seems the result it is giving is wrong.
A. Hello again. Very sorry for the lack thereof in replies as of lates. That said, I'll take a few to get back up to speed on matters and get back to you on this.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,171I have more questions:
Do you need to boil the water first (100 C temperature) before starting the generator?
And when the generator has started, do you keep the water at boiling point (100 C) until the end of the process?
If you're going to use the CS you're making for asthma with a nebulizer, is it better to apply heat during processing or no heat?
Thanks!
- Re: Please validate website claim an... grizz
7 y
1,745
This is a reply to # 2,351,624No heat whatsoever, and no chemicals. You MUST use distilled water. Other than that, everything is done at room temperature, and the results are pure Ionic Silver ( but you need a current limited generator, limited to 1 or 2 mah ).
Grizz- Re: Please validate website claim an... mtl777
7 y
1,683
This is a reply to # 2,351,635Thanks Grizz!
I'm using an air bubbler. How strong should I set the air flow? Is stronger air flow better (up to a point)?
- Re: Please validate website claim an... grizz
7 y
1,783
This is a reply to # 2,351,646I don't think it matters much how fast the air stream is, as long as there is some circulation in the water. I have set mine for a nice stream of bubbles. The object is to get water circulating from bottom to top.
Grizz
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RE: Do you need to boil the water first (100 C temperature) before starting the generator?
A. If heat processing is your goal, then the answer is: yes.
Also, it's important that both electrodes(anode and cathode(s) be pure silver with heat processing as the metals will leach into the solution.
In addition to this, the optimum startup point is determined when all of the electrode surfaces no longer produce bubbles from their surfaces. - indicating that the entire assembly has equalized and is at optimum.RE: And when the generator has started, do you keep the water at boiling point (100 C) until the end of the process?
A. YesRE: If you're going to use the CS you're making for asthma with a nebulizer, is it better to apply heat during processing or no heat?
A. Unfortunately, I have no experience with this personally. - hopefully someone else will chime-in to help.
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