Hveragerthi -

As both a human being and a forum owner, you have showed me a vast amount of disrespect.  Whether you or I agree on the tenets of "natural" healing, does not excuse your rude & intentional disrespect for my polite & legitimate request for you not to share your views in my forum.  So you are banned from my forum (after posting  that 'mucoid plaque is a myth' - after I asked you politely not to post in my forum and warned you that you would be banned, if you did).

I am going to respond to this post (out of respect, and my desire for the truth as I know it, to be seen), and then I will not be responding further to any of your posts (as I have a new forum to run & organize, people to help, orders to process/fill, and personal commitments to others off Curezone that I am assisting with their health).

Unyquity,

You are wrong with your assumptions and are contradicting yourself.  I see no reason to believe I am wrong in any assumption - I simply disagree with your viewpoints - especially your definition of "natural healing"  - and I certainly have NOT contradicted myself.  You do not know enough about the methodologies I promote to make that determination.  I haven't shared them with you, and I have not had a chance to compose a forum description - although the information is in one of the threads at the beginning of my forum, in a "in a nutshell' explanation.  What I do has more to do with natural healing than you will ever understand.  Your concept of natural healing has no similarities with mine - so of course, I disagree.
Just because something is extracted this does not mean it is inherently bad or does not work the same. It means it's not a substance that's found naturally on this earth, and contrary to what you say, a substance that has been extracted or isolated from it's natural 'chemical companions' does indeed react differently in our natural bodies than the natural substance.  It's fine with me if you disagree with that, just not in my forum.  In fact, sometimes you must alter a substance, such as extraction or changing it to a salt, to get the effect you want. The "effect" I want is the one of the natural substance in a natural body...I do not believe in "manipulating a substance" (changing the natural 'ingredients' in a natural substance to achieve an 'effect'.  That's what "science" has been doing for decades; it doesn't appear to me that it works.  For example what do you think would happen if you ate Chinese foxglove as is? Yep, it would kill you!!! Of course, that's why we don't eat it.  That is why it is boiled 9 times in multiple changes of water to render it non-toxic. What happens if you use fresh chaparral, comfrey, coltsfoot or germander? You will develop liver damage from the pyrrolizidine alkaloids. There ARE many pyrrolizidne alkaloids that are hepatoxins, but even the FDA admits (and I quote):  information is generally lacking to establish a cause-effect relationship between comfrey ingestion and observed adverse effects humans and we all know if anybody wants comfrey off the market, it's the FDA.  Chaparral has been used to cure cancer & alleviate tumors for centuries.  :::sigh::: This is why these herbs have to be aged for several months to allow oxidative destruction of these toxic alkaloids! Jack in the Pulpit is caustic unless it is aged for at least 2 years. Again it requires alteration from oxidation to render it safe. Other herbs such as cascara sagrada also have to be aged to render them safe enough for use.  Much of your "scientific data" conflicts with the empirical evidence of the past decades, and your information on comfrey is false.

Even when you make a tea or tincture you are altering the plant from its "natural" form. Since when does the water from tea extract every beneficial compound from a plant? Even a beginning herbalist should understand that not everything is water soluble.   What about the fibers for example that serve purposes such as treating constipation and feeding the intestinal flora? It is also well known, even by beginning herbalists, that heat can destroy nutrients and even some compounds such as alkaloids in plants. For example, the heat from making a tea will immediately destroy the effects of yohimbe. It will also speed up the oxidation of echinacea, which is already an unstable herb to begin with. So again, making teas alters the plants chemistry  . Maybe this is why we don't find hot teas in nature. It is just not a natural method of healing. And what about resins like myrrh that has numerous beneficial properties but it not water soluble? Where does chamomile herbal tea exist naturally in nature? Then consider tinctures. Are you aware that alcohols react with some plant compounds forming other compounds? For example the reaction of alcohol on organic acids can form esters. So by tincturing herbs you are actually changing their chemistry. In fact many herbs are affected negatively by extraction with alcohols. Echinacea polysaccharides for example are denatured if alcohol is used as the extractant medium. And yohimbe's cholinergenic effects are negated if the herb is extracted in alcohol.Of course not everything is soluable in water,  and heat destroys some aspects of certain plants. I know this, and I'm SURE that you understand that when I say 'isolated & standardized extracts', I'm speaking of those products that are laboratory processed.  There is a difference, whether you believe it or perceive it or not.  I've been making Echinacea tinctures in alcohol for years (and I've also consumed my fair share of Echinacea root tea) as have many members of my family and millions of people worldwide.  Both the tea & the tincture are incredibly effective...in fact, Echinacea was THE most widely prescribed herbal preparation up until the 1920's, and the majority of the products sold were alcohol-based tinctures (made by Lloyds, if I remember correctly).

Other herbs have to be steamed, fermented, or altered in some other way to derive certain properties or to render them safe. Again, nature is not going to do this, but they work safely and effectively when done. I believe if they're not safe in nature naturally, they're likely not meant for human consumption.

As for IP6, studies have shown time and time again that the isolate works. So does beta glucan, another isolate. And betulinic acid. And one of my all time favorites quercetin, which I have seen work wonders numerous times in its isolated form.  I'm sure you understand my basic premise about altering substances found in nature by chemically altering the actual constinuents in the plants.  This is not the same as intentionally isolating ONE substance and removing it from all of the alkaloids & phytochemicals with which it is naturally found.

And if you read my initial post carefully I believe I also made a comment to the effect that it is one of the few times I would recommend alpha lipoic acid. I am not a big fan of most extracts, including teas and tinctures, because I understand synergy and balance. For example, green tea has a little stimulating caffeine, but also calming theanine. Alfalfa contains blood thinning coumarins, but also blood clotting vitamin K. Pau d' arco contains 18 antiseptic anthraquinones and napthaquinones that work synergistically as well as 5 anti-inflammatories that work synergistically. Combine the pau d' arco with chaparral and again you end up with a synergistic effect as the sulfur compounds of the chaparral increases the anti-viral beta-lapachol in the pau d' arco.  Yet Dr. Christopher & Dr. Schulze (whom you disregard and disrespect) cured tens of thousands of people without having access to your 'scientific knowledge'.  It's thinking that people need this excruciatingly complex level of advanced knowledge to heal themselves that you and I obviously disgree upon (and why I requested tha that you not post in my forum). 

As for the distilled water, nature reacts water with the minerals from plants and the earth to give us beneficial water such as spring water and glacial water. To distill water is hardly natural or what nature provides us. The ONLY way you are going to get close to getting distilled water in nature is if you are up in the clouds with a straw sucking it in! As I pointed out the water reacts with many substances on the way down from ozone, to nitrogen compounds, to dust. So the rainwater becomes partially saturated on the way down. It is in no way distilled when we come in to contact with it. So again, distilling water is about as far from a natural thing to do as you can get!  I already told you, the "science" on both sides of distilled water is equally compelling.  I advocate it's use because Dr. Christopher did, and because he was so very succesful with his entire program.  One cannot separate one part of a program and critique it soley, any more that we can heal or restore the body by focusing upon just one organ.  It's how each protocol works together that counts.  The proof is in the results, not the individual components analyzed in a sterile laboratory.

>As for what came first the disease or the organ failure,
>that is also debatable. Not to the greatest and most
>succesful natural healers that ever lived. (Schulze,
>Christopher, Gerson, Kelley, Hoxsey, et al).

So when did Harry Hoxsey ever claim that the organ failure came first? In fact any of these healers? You don't seem to have read as much as I have about some of these healers ??? Or maybe you did, but interpreted through different lenses. By the way, you need to do your homework better. Harry Hoxsey did not develop the Hoxsey Formula. It was actually his great grandfather, John Hoxsey, that developed the formula after watching what herbs sick horses ate to get better. No, I think perhaps need to do YOUR homework better.  Harry Hoxsey claimed that John Hoxsey got the formula by watching a horse, when in actuality he copied the formula from a Cayce reading (reading #4695-1, to be exact) - and of course there wasn't an "iodine plant", nor is there much of a likelihood that all of the herbs in the Hoxsey formula would have been growing in the same field. Hoxsey Formula also contained potassium iodide, a synthetic. And he also used the chemical compounds antimony trisulfide and zinc chloride in his therapies. By the way, I have a copy of Harry Hoxsey's original book he wrote on his therapies and a copy of the hearing transcripts from the 1950s hearings when he was shut down. But you didn't seem to know that (above).

As for Schulze, as I pointed out he is old school. If he kept up to date with what has been learned about herbs then he would see some problems with some of his remedies. Yet in just my experience alone, his methodology and formulations are curing two people of cancer and one of Muscular Dystrophy.  I'll take that kind of "old school" - he cured people of AIDS & ALS.  I don't know of any "modern" healers that can say that - perhaps a few with AIDS, but ALS? For instance he committed one of the most common errors in herbal formulating that I see. The use of high tannin herbs in a formulation. And the most commonly used herb with this mistake? Uva ursi. Tannins are notorious for binding with alkaloids, glycosides, and other beneficial compounds forming insoluble complexes rendering them useless to the body. In layman's terms, such a mistake will reduce the effectiveness of any herbs it is combined with. He also uses a lot of herbs that are not for long term use (more than 2 weeks at a time). For example the berberine herbs and anthraquinone stimulant laxatives like senna, cascara sagrada, rhubarb root, and cape aloe. Berberine kills the intestinal flora, damages the intestinal lining and raises blood pressure. Strong anthraquinone laxatives weaken intestinal peristalsis leading to a laxative dependence.

Christopher makes the same mistakes.You say they are mistakes, but the thousands of healed people view them as healing.  If the cathartic herbs you mentioned did indeed cause problems, the full protocols they suggested seem to have counteracted them entirely & effectively.  It seems you like to "isolate" EVERYthing.

Kelley recommends massive doses of isolated enzymes. He also recommends vitamins, such as vitamin C. These are synthetics produced from sugar and petroleum products. Minerals, in particular colloidal minerals. These minerals come from the shale deposits in Utah and are notorious for containing aluminum, something I thought you were highly against! Coral calcium, which is garbage. Hydrochloric acid (HCl). Actually you cannot buy HCl supplements. These supplements are really betaine HCl. Betaine is a plant isolate, which is then reacted with synthetic hydrochloric acid. Minerals, which are isolated and made in to synthetic salts. Pepsin and omega 3 fatty acids, which are isolates. And CoQ10, which is synthetically produced. So he uses all sorts of isolates and total or partial synthetics in total violation of what you jumped on me for. And yet you call him one of the greatest healers. Does he offer any formulas to help you swallow that crow?!!! see below - I do not subscribe to the use of isolates.

Kelley also claims that we all have cancer. What a load of BS!!! He's certainly NOT the only healer that says that. People like Kelley don’t seem to understand the difference between cancer and healthy cell morphology. Furthermore, if we all had cancer then anytime our immune systems got suppressed the cancer would take hold. In other words we would have all been likely dead a long time ago!!!

Gerson therapy includes taking isolated and synthetic vitamins and minerals, isolated enzymes, and isolated thyroid supplements. Again, TOTALLY contrary to your ideology.Wrongo!  You don't KNOW my ideology - which is to compare and contrast these healers and utilize their most common, totally natural 'common threads'.  By the way, my mother-in-law was cured of Stage IV terminal liver cancer by attending the underground clinics of Kelley - so I'm QUITE familiar with his methodology.  And she spent some time at Gerson, and worked directly with Charlotte (for 2-3 years, if I'm not mistaken).  And I also know that Gerson/Kelley adjusted their protocols for each person (Kelley far more than Gerson).

By the way, the viral link to cancer has been known and proven since 1910. Any doctor or scientist that disagrees needs to catch up to the research that has proven these facts over close to a century. Yet many great healers healed tens of thousands without knowing your 'facts'.  Amazing. In fact if you do a little research you will find out how these viruses cause cancer.I'm wondering, how many people have you actually healed with all your knowledge?  My main foundation for learning is to only the study the works and concepts of those that have actually taken responsibility for people's lives, and successfully and completely cured them.  

>Yes, I know, horsetail contains a VERY minimal amount of >nicotine - I've never heard of it affecting anyone that >utilized it adversely.

I have. Then again I have been working with herbs for a very long time.  Care to share the quantity and quality of the horsetail ingested by those that were affected adversely?  I'm willing to learn.  Also please, describe full their physical state, diet, condtion of their heart and whether or not the herb was organic, and how you came to associate their 'adverse reaction' with the horsetail.  I'm interesting in seeing these 'case reports', especially from someone as thorough as yourself.

>Aluminum (or any other heavy metal) that normally couldn't >cross the blood/brain barrier without the aid of fluoride, >simply can't be healthy in the brain (or the body , in >unnatural forms or levels).

Yet you consider Kelley a great healer even though he recommends colloidal minerals that have been known for a long time to contain high levels of aluminum. Interesting!!! I never EVER said I subscribed to ALL of his methodologies - assumption is not a good thing.

As for posting on your board, your comment to me was insulting, and contradicting to your own ideology. That is why I responded. So don’t go placing the blame on me. You assumed my information was contradicting because you don't know my tenets.  You could have respected my position as a forum owner (or even another poster) and the Terms of Service/Posting Guidelines of CureZone, and posted a one-liner and linked to another thread.  You chose not to do that. It is just a shame though that you have so much about natural healing that you need to learn but you choose to insult and try to drive me away rather than learning the truth about healing.  I doubt that you can find any 'insulting' remarks in my post - certainly nothing that rivals your rudeness, disregard & obvious lack of respect.  I simply don't agree with your information or your 'science' - if that insults you, perhaps you'd find a thicker skin to be helpful.  Among other things I do a lot of traveling to teach alternative therapies and natural healing. You should not be so quick to make false assumptions about me! I cannot think of any false assumption I have made about you at all - from the very beginning it was clear that your concept of natural healing and mine do not mesh in any way, and the more you post, the more clear it becomes.

Sine Cera -

Unyquity