Edited 
#97202
16 y
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Chris, you mentioned the term "starvation diet" in your posts recently. What does that mean? Many people exist on nothing but fast food, cigarettes, etc. I know not one fast food diet person to die of starvation. They take in thousands of calories daily, of probably close to zero nutrition. Compare to someone eating only a few hundred calories daily of just several ounces of raw carrots or whatever. If I am understanding starvation diet correctly, the person taking in high amounts of nutrition, but very few calories, can die from it. Whereas the person of a fast food diet of little nutrition but high calories, will live. This does not make sense. If you could explain, I would appreciate.
- Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
A starvation diet is any diet that you take in less calories or less nutrition than you use up each day. The body does not make up the difference and starves to death. If you follow the fasting principles however your body will supply it's own nutrition by feeding off it's own reserves. Don't ask me why, that's just the way it is.
As an example (true story) there were once three hunters having a bad season. All they could catch was rabbits over a period of about 9 months. They all died of starvation because the rabbits were missing a vital element of nutrition- I can't remember what. The point was they died of starvation with their bellies full.
If you feed your body it expects full nutrition. If you fast your body completely it will very efficiently conserve what it has and live off the stores while maintaining and repairing it's flesh and organs as needed.
Andrew.- Edited #97202
16 y
2,794
This is a reply to # 1,191,424
Fonty, thank you for your response. Perhaps I did not state the question very clearly though; what I mean is, take someone who lives for years (decades) on a fast food diet. We all know them, they are everywhere. Their meals are almost all eaten at a fast food restaurant (or drive up window) or consist of potato chips and soda purchased at a gas station. These people are not healthy, there is little to no nutritional value in any of the food they eat. Their body runs on this food for years. They are not healthy, but none the less, they neither starve nor die. How the body can run on this diet for decades is a mystery to me. They are taking in most likely thousands of calories daily, most or all of the calories are from unhealthy sources (hamburgers, soda, french fries, etc.) yet they do not starve from this lack of good nutrition. I have known all kinds of people who eat like this and have never known of one single person starving from it. In fact, most of the people who live on this kind of a diet are usually overweight. This person has enough calories, but almost zero nutrition.
On the other hand, what has been stated here is something called a starvation diet. I assume this means even if a person is eating good foods, but they are not getting enough calories, they will starve and die.
This is what is confusing to me: you have two people, one is a fast food person who takes in little to no nutrition, yet has plenty of calories and does not starve. The other person takes in quality nutrition but not enough calories and is said to be on a starvation diet due to lack of calories.
Could you or Chris, or someone explain this to me because it does not make sense, and it is perplexing to me, how a person can live on almost zero nutrition as long as they have a lot of calories, yet a person on high quality food is starving if they don't have enough calories. I would think the lack of nutrition would be far more important than the calories, but from what I see, it appears someone can run their body on almost no nutrition (for decades) as long as they have enough calories. I am just very confused about this. Thank you again for your response.
- Re: What is a starvation diet? chrisb1
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,191,438Hello #97202,
just read your second post after posting my reply.........
In answer.........
People who live on a fast-food processed diet of high calories and who are either overweight or obese, eventually succumb to chronic disease.
Why do you think that cancer, heart disease, arthritis, and so on are so prevalent, and the mortality so high throughout the World?
Do you also ever see anyone who is severely overweight and/or obese live actively and healthily to a ripe old age?
Regards
chrisb1. - Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
16 y
2,886
This is a reply to # 1,191,438Advertisement
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
Junk food is not zero nutrition. It is bad nutrition, it is full of other stuff that really isn't food, but there is nutrition there. And what the modern diet lacks in quality it makes up for in quantity. Our bodies are adaptable up to a point, and what life does is it survives and makes the most of what it has got. We feed it junk food and it doesn't exactly thrive but it makes the most of it.
On the other hand if we feed ourselves good quality raw food it is very hard to eat too little. Especially by today's standards. In the wild we would eat one meal a day, and not by any means would it be every day. Our modern diet is actually chocka block full of nutrients, so much so we're pissing them away day in day out. And yes we're doing that here in the west while people a dozen kids are starving every week down the street and millions more in countries that aren't so lucky.
Anyway, what is bad about the modern diet isn't so much it's nutrition, it's the rest of the crap that goes into the 'food' and the sheer bulk that we have to shove in our mouths just to make ends meet.
It really is very hard to kill someone by starvation who is taking in good nutrition.
Andrew.
- Re: What is a starvation diet? chrisb1
16 y
2,856
- Edited #97202
16 y
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- Re: What is a starvation diet? chrisb1
16 y
2,845
This is a reply to # 1,191,400Hello #97202,
I may have referred to the phrase "starvation diet" rather loosely, but what I mean by that, is a diet that deprives the body (by degrees) of the essential and/or optimum nutrition it needs for absolute "wellness".
The diet exemplified on the film "supersize me" is where that person lived exclusively on "McDonalds fare", and after 30 days or so, he was so severely malnourished to the point of causing damage to his internal organs, which eventually would have led to his death.
We all know that starvation begins where fasting finishes, and the internal food reserves of the body have been so depleted that the body then begins to feed on itself.
A person may appear to be well-nourished by living on a high calorie diet, but even an obese individual can be so malnourished that they are inviting the onset of disease and mortality.
It has also been demonstrated that a high water-content low-calorie diet (of essential foodstuffs, such as raw fruit and vegetables)) leads to greater longevity and good health than would otherwise be the case.
The amount of calories consumed does not equate to good health, but insufficient calories will lead to a loss of weight: where for many people the opposite is the case......being overweight.
Hunger and appetite usually ensure that sufficient calories are being consumed on a daily basis, so not to receive enough calories is highly unlikely.
The body is approx' 70% water, so if the diet consists mainly of high water content & natural foods then that is all you need.
Counting calories is a misnomer, and is a ploy used by the weightloss companies to buy their products and enjoy profits from enrollment fees: it has very little to do with nutrition, good health, and longevity.
Regards
chrisb1.
- Edited #97202
16 y
2,866
This is a reply to # 1,191,439
Chris, thank you for your response. You say the calorie thing is a misnomer. I read somewhere awhile ago, don't remember where, that the calorie theory is just that; a theory, and that it is a theory full of holes. I wish I could remember where I read it.
But let me ask you this because perhaps it will help to make things more clear for me: for example, I can eat a pound of carrots, which I think is about two hundred calories or so, and an apple, another seventy-five to a hundred calories or so, and I can be full for an entire day. This is less than three hundred calories for an entire day. Yet, as I understand it, the body is "supposed" to need a daily intake of around two thousand or so calories. Are you saying that if three hundred calories (a pound of carrots and an apple) fills me up for the day, then that is all I need and not to worry that I am being "starved" because I am eating about one-seventh of what I am "supposed" to eat? Because that is what is confusing me; I am full after that much food, and could not eat seven more times that amount of food even if I wanted to. Thank you again for your response.
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- Re: What is a starvation diet? chrisb1
16 y
2,811
This is a reply to # 1,191,446Hello #97202,
carrots and apples would constitute an almost mono-diet and is not recommended. Food should be as diversified as possible to receive the max' nutrition.
If you are not receiving enough calories then you will lose weight. Are you losing weight?
A farmhand or anyone involved with heavy physical labour will "burn" more calories, so will require more calories and food than someone in a sedentary occupation, therefore eat more according to appetite, which will be greater.
The amount of calories needed depends on your physical activity: nothing more and nothing less.
If you are not eating enough food, you will lose weight, but if you eat too much, then you will gain weight. Your body is the best judge here and not the "number" of calories so-called "experts" say that you need on a daily basis.
Regards
chrisb1.- Edited #97202
16 y
2,829
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,191,447
Chris, I was just using the carrots and apples to illustrate. I don't eat carrots and an apple every day! I don't eat a mono diet, I eat a variety. Funny thing is though, before I started eating healthy, I could eat an entire large Pizza Hut thick crust pizza BY MYSELF and then eat another meal a few hours later, and I did this kind of thing on a regular basis. Now, for example, I can eat a pound of carrots and an apple and that is all I would need to eat that day to be full. I can't believe how much food I ate in the past.
- Re: What is a starvation diet? eatingischeating
16 y
2,977
This is a reply to # 1,191,452Some points;
I think what you mean (and what is typically meant) by the term starvation diet is a VLCD (very low calorie diet), which if pursued for long enough will eventually lead to death, think anorexia.
Malnutrition means exactly that: Poor Nutrition. So someone can be hugely obese but still malnourished and perhaps suffering from nutritional deficiencies.
Even a very poor typically Western diet will provide all the nutrients that a human being needs, namely Carbohydrate (for energy) Protein (essential amino acids for muscle synthesis and repair) and fat ( necessary as contains certain essential nutrients (linoleic / linolenic acid for example).
A calorie is simply a unit of energy and if you eat too many they are stored in the form of fat, whereas consumption of too few calories will lead eventually to emaciation and death. Your BMR (basal metabolic rate) determines how many calories you need simply to stay alive (maintain blood pressure, transmit nerve impulses etc) whereas how active you are determines how many more calories you need.
The key, as always, to diet is BALANCE. Although the benefits of Water Fasting are extolled it is not possible to fast forever so you need to adopt a balanced diet: some protein, some carbohydrate and some fat. Studies have shown that calorie restriction (up to 60%) can prolong life (Robert Walford) provided all nutrients are available, this is often referred to as CRON (Calorie Restriction with Optimum Nutrition) and much information is available on the web.
Don't quite agree with Fonty obout the difference between total fasting and consuming only a few calories per day: I think that if you are only eating for example an orange a day then the body will draw on its reserves to make up the calorie deficit, just as when fasting. To me a very very low calorie diet is not too dissimilar to fasting.
John.
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- Re: What is a starvation diet? bling
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,191,459Don't quite agree with Fonty obout the difference between total fasting and consuming only a few calories per day: I think that if you are only eating for example an orange a day then the body will draw on its reserves to make up the calorie deficit, just as when fasting. To me a very very low calorie diet is not too dissimilar to fasting.
John.
As in people doing the Mastercleanse, lemon and maple syrup. Is this partial ketosis?- Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
16 y
2,890
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This is a reply to # 1,191,466Ick I could never do the Master Cleanse. That drink sounds like the very food I've been trying to avoid all my adult life. :p- Edited #97202
16 y
2,833
This is a reply to # 1,191,508
Fonty, if you use Agave Nectar or a combination of Agave Nectar and Maple Syrup it is not that bad. I would not do the salt water flush nor add the cayenne pepper though. Burroughs followers on the main lemonade cleanse site tend to be somewhat doctrinaire though, and they will let you know you are wrong if YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING The Master Cleanse THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE!!!!
(If you get my drift by the capitals above, you will understand what I mean, they are really concerned there are no deviations from Burroughs idea.)
- Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,191,517I'll stick with the Shelton (et al) idea. :)
No caps needed though. hehe - Re: What is a starvation diet? bling
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,191,517
Real maple syrup is nutritious, nothing wrong with lemons or cayenne? I did it for a few days awhile back, but didn't do the salt water flush.
Put it this way, if you find waterfasting too hard and want to lose weight, it does work but you do get sick of it after a few days, but it does keep your energy up and you don't feel fatigued. It is less hassle than juicing.
But i soon came back to the waterfasting forum lol As my priority is healing. - Re: What is a starvation diet? chrisb1
16 y
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
Lets just clarify this question of a starvation diet and what it really means.
Reducing the number of calories in your diet means that you will lose weight; but is NOT necessarily a starvation diet.........only a "REDUCING" diet. Just so long as you feed the body what it really needs, then you are not starving. A reducing diet means that you are living partially on your own food reserves which are needed by the body to meet its daily calorific needs. This is not full but only partial ketosis.
Nutrition does not equal the number of calories consumed.
Nutrition is what your body actually needs: Protein, carbohydrates, fats, vitamins, minerals and enzymes as provided by nature in their natural form, which it is also designed to ingest.
The supersize me film illustrated malnourishment in the form of severe electrolyte, vitamin and mineral deficiency, and although a high calorie diet, it was not providing the nutrition the body needed to survive, and can therefore be classified as a starvation diet. Death would have eventually ensued if not aborted.
If you are not losing weight, then you have sufficient calories within your diet; if you are gaining weight, then you are consuming more calories than you need, and will gain weight by storing more fat. Simple.
BUT.......the best calories you need come from only those foods created by nature and from which your body will thrive.
Something ado about nothing here I feel...........the point is this.........
If you are not losing weight you are receiving enough calories, if you gain weight you are receiving more calories within your diet than you need. Period.
However, the best calories are obtained from a wholesome, unadulterated and unprocessed raw food diet, as provided by Nature and which will satisfy your physiological needs. That is it. Pure & Simple.
Regards
chrisb1.
- Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
16 y
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- Edited #97202
16 y
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- Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
16 y
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- Re: What is a starvation diet? Fonty
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,191,459This isn't my opinion so much as what my research has come up with John. If you eat an orange a day your body may get used to that over time and be okay with it. But the natural way the body works is when you eat your body goes into digestion mode- it actually puts into motion a lot of energy to make the whole digestion system function. It really is a lot of work to put into digesting just one orange a day and seriously probably would not be worth that effort. And it's not like the whole digestion system can just be switched on and off like a light switch, it's a whole industrial process which takes time to start up and run and shut down again.
Then when you stop eating the body actually uses part of the digestion system for other purposes, which it never gets to do while the digestion system is running daily. The body is a whole different organism while fasting, and again this isn't something that can just be switched on and off. If you eat good high quality food I do believe you can train your body to adjust to Intermittent Fasting- such as a day eating then a day fasting- but this is not normal and if the food wasn't high quality starvation could be a real danger.
Andrew. - Re: What is a starvation diet? mouseclick
16 y
2,930
This is a reply to # 1,191,459I have read about CRON diets, fascinating stuff. Logic tells me that my body will utilise what it needs and knows what's best to do. I had always had this conflict between what I was told by others and what seemed common sense in the past about fasting. This forum has helped me resolve that conflict.
I was always told "if you don't eat your body will go into starvation mode and will conserve your weight, then when you eat you will put even more weight on". I thought, "how can my body be so stupid, I have eyes that can see shops, I know there is food around, why on earth will my body do this?". In actual fact, the advice given to me was complete nonsense, I know now. So I always tend these days to put more emphasis on how I instinctively feel about something, rather than what I read or hear.
Anyway, the point I was getting to was that I think that a very low calorie diet is probably similar to fasting, because my body doesn't just flip switches, e.g. digestive system OFF, or ON. This is what my instinct tells me. And the fact thet CRON diets are shown to prolong life on tests with mice and indeed on humans makes me generally think that fasting and CRON diets are good things, and perhaps similar in many ways.
On a side note, and similar to distilled Water Fast versus tap water fast, and Water Fasting versus low calorie debate, has anyone thought about the air we breathe? Would we be healthier and live longer breathing pure oxygen as opposed to 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen? Would a perfect detox fast be on distilled water and 100% oxygen? I have no idea, but I wouldn't mind betting that we would have a few problems on oxygen alone, because we are used to breathing the air around us, and this is what our bodies have adapted to.Advertisement
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- Edited #97202
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- Many thanks! N/M mouseclick 16 y 2,726
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- Re: What is a starvation diet? bling
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Expand 25 messages, 21 to 45 of 45 chrisb1
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- Re: What is a starvation diet? eatingischeating
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- Re: What is a starvation diet? chrisb1
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