Fasting and the sauna 
bluedisc
17 y
10,179
I don't know if any of you guys use a sauna, but I have one available to me and use it quite often. I was just wondering your guy's thoughts on fasting and using a sauna. I figure that fasting is good, using a sauna is good, so using them together would be doubly good. Some sort of synergy, the sauna kicking up your metabolism while fasting, I can only assume it would quicken the detox/weightloss.- Re: Fasting and the sauna #89836
17 y
9,927
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,056,706I've never been in a sauna myself -- too shy for that. =) I also thought that sauna + fasting would be doubly good, since both aids in detoxing especially reading about hot water baths which are prevalent in Japan. If you do try this for yourself, I would love an update! =)
- Re: Fasting and the sauna: Don't com... #83873
17 y
10,052
This is a reply to # 1,056,706While both sauna and Water Fasting have benefits- combining the two could be deadly due to the possiblity accelerating an electrolyte imbalance. If you are liquid fasting , like the monodiet - master cleanse- you will be better off but still could end of ending the fast early due depleting your system of a broad range of electrolytes and other minerals.
Read Detoxify or Die by Sherry Rodgers. She suggests broad range of detox cocktail to use when using the sauna so as to replace nutrients. I believe someone else wrote something to that effect on this board previously and a search might help you.
I had been advised to not undertake hot baths, sauna, or whirlpool activities as they are too taxing to the body while fasting by a professional.- Re: Fasting and the sauna: Don't com... bluedisc
17 y
9,850
This is a reply to # 1,056,928Well thanks for telling me! That is very good to know, considering I was going to do it soon! Awesome, thanks for the knowledge.
- Re: Fasting and the sauna: Don't com... Fonty
17 y
9,912
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,056,928Advertisement
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Again this is one side of the argument. Remember that the fasting body is far more conservative than the consuming body. So the nutrients that are usually lost through sweating are very likely reduced or even stopped altogether and only toxins are released. I read one account of a faster who stated that he even stopped sweating salt while fasting, and that sweat that dripped into his eyes did not sting them.
Basically the two options are there, there are pro's and con's for both. So it's best to make up your own mind. Or experiment for yourself being careful not to overdo it.
Cheers,
Andrew. - Re: Fasting and the sauna: Don't com... aliprice
17 y
9,871
This is a reply to # 1,056,928I would be really careful doing saunas while fasting on water. I know that, for me, saunas are very extreme and induce dizziness upon rising. When water fasting, you most likely will already be dizzy due to a lowered blood pressure. You certainly would not want to rise up and faint in the sauna - That could land you in a great deal of trouble. Just my two cents worth. I would dry brush and netty pot in order to speed up elimination. It seems that saunas, exercise, enemas, all are very enervating while fasting. I understand that different constitutional types can do things a bit differently. But from what I have read and learned from professional fasters is that it is crucial to rest as much as possible. Fasting is based largely on animals in nature who lay down when sick, hibernate, and do not eat - In order to devote all of their energy to repair and healing. A sick and injured animal does not run around inducing detoxifation through stimulation. I guess if your only goal with Water Fasting is weight loss then this would not apply. Sorry. Just rambling.
- Re: Fasting and the sauna: Don't com... bluedisc
17 y
9,850
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,877
This is a reply to # 1,056,706It's one of those debatable points. Some fasting supervisors over the years have recommended saunas and even built a whole detox regime around fasting and sweating. One even invented a 'sweat box' for the purpose. Others though, especially those that recommend complete rest, say that using a sauna is too ennervating and should be avoided. I think Shelton didn't even regard sweating as an elimination organ, whereas today it's considered at least by some to have similar properties in that regard to the kidneys. In fact when the sweat glands are inhibited it's said that the kidneys have to work harder but when you sweat you are taking pressure off those precious organs.
I've always loved saunas, and if I had a sauna or a sweat box I would certainly use them. Without those options exercise works just as well for me and my sweat glands are working better now than they have for a long time now I've revived them with my regular workouts. :)
And personally I think ennervation is over-rated. We often have more energy while fasting and it's all good to be using that energy to help detoxing the body or even just doing things we like doing, like taking hot baths etc. As always be guided by your body, if it makes you feel good and doesn't leave you feeling listless and unable to move for hours afterwards then it's a good thing for sure. :)
Andrew.Advertisement
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- Re: Fasting and the sauna bluedisc
17 y
9,787
This is a reply to # 1,056,994Cool, so now I got a two sided coin here. I'm a risk taker, and really like the sauna, so I'd probably try it out. Thanks for the input.
- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,952
This is a reply to # 1,057,319Fasting and the sauna do have their own benefits, but I do not think they combine very well: it would probably be best to avoid extreme heat (or cold) while fasting as this could prove to be very enervating for the fasting individual.
Most fasting authorities of the past recommended avoiding extremes of heat and cold for that very same reason; it could also lead to greater expenditure of energy and depletion of food reserves at a faster rate, when conservation of both would be preferable to allow the work of detoxification and healing to progress for a longer period of time.
Food for thought.
chris- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,866
This is a reply to # 1,057,370I just read what Shelton wrote about sweating a few days ago. He was very nasty about it, pretty much referring to Arnold Ehret as a charlatan. Shelton didn't even know that the skin and sweat glands were an excretory organ back then. Even if he had he may have not encouraged it anyway due to the enervating nature of the sauna, but his ignorance of this bodily process and willingness to condemn anyone that practised it seems more than a bit hypocritical to me. Don't get me wrong, Shelton was awesome no doubt about it. But it does seem to me for that and a few other reasons he was completely blinded to anything else except for fasting, and his way of doing it.
The fact is, sweating takes some of the load off the kidneys, doing a very similar job in cleaning the body of impurities. And while I'm the first to admit that fasting can work well enough on it's own, I think more evidence to the contrary should be given before disregarding the assistance to detoxing that saunas may provide during a fast. It's not like it hasn't been tried and successfully, and debunking it out of hand because some or even many fasting doctors don't advise it isn't reason enough to turn people off it completely. It does work for some and like exercising and dry fasting if people want to give it a go then that's what we as humans with the ability to choose have a right to do.
Again it depends what the fast is for too. There is no precedent in nature for example in fasting just to lose weight. A fat dog or cat doesn't instinctively know it's being fed junk and gone on a fast as it does when seriously injured. We humans make that call and choose to fast to lose the weight. But losing weight isn't, or shouldn't, ever be the only goal. Complete health is attained not just by getting a BMI of 20 or so. It is gained by living a healthy life, eating correctly and exercising regularly. If we just fast then return to unhealthy living we know we are just harming our bodies again and will probably 'suffer' just as much on our next fast. A sedentary person with a BMI of 20 or 21 can be a lot less healthy than an active person with a lot more fat on his body if that person is active and eating well. Anyone fasting can benefit from exercise IF they have the energy to do so, and I believe the fasting body will provide more energy as needed also if not in crisis. Exercising will not hurt you in fasting any more than it will while eating- unless you overdo it. The body doesn't just detox while fasting it rebuilds, exercising can help focus some of that rebuilding also, as well as increasing detox during and after the exercise. And sweating is also useful for detoxing and losing weight, so again if you don't overdo it- same as when you're eating- it could be very useful while fasting.
I do think that the perils of enervation are over emphasised in fasting. We are warned not to have hot baths or cold showers or massages etc etc. Any energy 'lost' is replaced by the body until there is no more left and hunger returns. The biggest problem we probably have with fasting is the limited information on it. The limited research, and the fact that a lot of the research we do have deals with admittedly awesome people who have supervised many fasts, but in limited situations. Fasting in a retreat is miles away from fasting at home while going on with your life. And fasting in relative health- compared to the severly sick and those condemned by modern medicine to death- is miles away from fasting for weight loss.
And everyone is different. Fasting to me is about being your own doctor. And to be our own doctor we have a responsibility to learn as much about our body as we can. Fasting is a natural way of regaining health but for us it is a choice also. It is not enough to just choose to fast, but we need to choose how to fast and what works best for each of us as individuals. In this we have some very strict guidelines but many choices outside of those guidelines. Fasting is far from an exact science, and maybe it's better if it stays that way. We should always stay open and be guided but never led.
Andrew.
- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,745
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Fonty,
I believe there is a definite demarcation between fasting in health and fasting in ill-health.................
Shelton did in fact list the skin as a major organ of elimination (quoting skin eruptions during the process of elimination) along with the other organs of elimination: the kidneys, lungs, bowels & Liver; Book: "The Greatest Health Discovery" Published by Natural Hygiene Press 1972.
Shelton was also the only person who had the energy and motivation to cull together the complete health-works of those who went before him into one lengthy volume: Human Life: Its Philosophy & Laws; a labour of love and determination to seek the truth.
He also quoted from many other "authorities" on fasting in his own books, and read extensively from their works and studies before reaching his own conclusions; albeit erroneously re' Arnold Ehret.
Sheltons lifetime work was amongst the diseased, emaciated, sick and chronically ill, & came to the conclusion (along with other Natural Hygienists plus J H Tilden MD) that disease was as a result of lowered nerve-energy (enervated toxemia) which resulted from overwork, lack of sleep, improper dietary habits and wasteful expenditure of life-energy.
In that regard they found that life energy needed to be preserved or recuperated by rest, both physical and physiological, but also by utilizing towards that end, all of the other agencies of life as well.
They also found, thru years of clinical experience, that extremes of heat & cold while fasting, (and while eating) were wasteful of life energy, even inhibiting the cleansing & healing process to the detriment of the patient.
Although exercise has a valuable place in a health regimen (and for those who are healthy during fasting), it is definitely NOT for those who are diseased or unwell, or who are trying to recover their health when their life-energy is already at a low ebb; the primary need here would be for rest, to achieve the maximum healing and cleansing benefit to the body. For example, any animal in nature which is sick or wounded will abstain from food (and water) resting the whole time until well again.
If we are fortunate enough to already have abundant life-energy and receive greater benefit from Fasting than our forebears, then we should count ourselves as extremely fortunate that we can rely on their extensive experience for our benefit.
Shelton was considered to be the most experienced of them all.
Regards
chris
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,740
This is a reply to # 1,057,817We are extremely fortunate to have Shelton to call upon no question about it. The trouble is that there are others who had differing opinions in these areas also proved by their complete success with fasting patients over many years.
I just think there is room for experiment. I think we should always have the time and space set aside to allow rest when fasting, but not to be bogged down in thinking that is the only option. Being bored as we all know is a serious hurdle to successful fasting, as well as is distractions from those around us, constant bombardments of commercials and bilboards advertising foods etc. Having things to occupy our mind and body which exercise, from very mild to strenuous, is a great way to keep occupied for one thing. I've said before that I would prefer to be working right now if that was an option just to have something to do. The other thing is the quality of life during the fast- to just ban things out of hand like a hot bath or even a sauna, which can be the best kind of wind down and relaxation form some of us, could also be putting people off doing something that would increase their enjoyment during a fast and even take away some of the aches at tougher times and make it bearable.
There are a lot of reasons animals wouldn't move while fasting. One is the need to rest. But also with serious injury they simply may not be able to move very far. Another is the best conservation of fluids until they are able to get to water on their own. And yet another very good reason for an animal to hold up in one spot and not move would be self preservation- they are as vulnerable as infants almost in such situations and their best chance to avoid predators would be to hide and stay still. None of these things apply to us, and as a rule according to at least one fasting doctor with plenty of experience, if you are able to keep up X amount of workload while eating junk then there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do the same while fasting as well, regaining health without compromising, or in some cases improving fitness at the same time.
I just think it's important that having lost 'faith' or trust in one doctor, not to just look for another and hand it all back to them. Fasting puts the power of our own health in our hands and puts the choices firmly in our own laps. We should listen to our listen to the experienced fasting doctors and to each other and to our body. But the final choice of how to live our lives depends on each of our personal needs, and not on any rule that doesn't sit right with us.
Andrew.- Re: Fasting and the sauna bluedisc
17 y
9,815
This is a reply to # 1,057,917While fasting and using a suana may be a bad mix, fonty is right when he states that there is room for experiementation. Fasting as we know is not an area that has been extensivly studied in contemporary culture.
Maybe for the very ill that are fasting, resting is the only option because they need to maintain their lifeforce. But for those who aren't truly ill that are fasting for a better life there are more options open to them. - Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,952
This is a reply to # 1,057,917Advertisement
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Absolutely Fonty,
but the most experienced and most numerous fasting authorities, just happened to be Natural Hygienic practitioners.
The knowledge we have, was handed down to us from these pioneers dating from the early 1800's: Sylvester Graham, Felix Oswald MD, Robert Walter MD, Isaac Jennings MD, Russell Thacker Trall MD, Thomas Low Nichols MD, James C Jackson MD, Charles Page MD, and so on, all of whom had abandoned the drugging practice of their day by pioneering health reform, and of whom, most had extensive experience with fasting and its benefits.
The knowledge they accrued was painstakingly collected and saved into one magnificent volume by Herbert Shelton: Human Life: Its Philosophy and Laws, who then went on to write his own voluminous Hygienic System of seven volumes, which included the work of the pioneers and also included his own extensive experience as well.
I did not dogmatically say that rest was the only option. If you had read my post more carefully you would have noticed that I said that there is flexibility and room for experimentation for fasters, but this has to be seen in the context of "Fasting in Health", compared to "Fasting in Disease", the former of which is much more flexible than the latter.
All of the fasting authorities in the past agreed unanimously that absolute rest was essential to obtain the maximum benefit to recover health from any diseased state: and all Natural Hygienic Practitioners of today would say the very same thing. Do we know better than they? Hardly.
Boredom is a very small price to pay for the recovery from serious disease, which includes my own Cancer, and I very much doubt that I would be alive today without the absolute rest that I needed, and that my body craved for. Absolute rest means the conservation of all of the life's energies, to enable the body to muster all of its reserves & resources in fighting disease.
No one is banning things out of hand, like a hot bath or sauna, but with serious disease, this would inhibit the healing and cleansing process, because it is enervating to any individual trying to recover from a life threatening illness; this was proven to be so, and was the consensus of opinion by all of the fasting pioneers who denounced such practices through their own extensive experiences.
Animals also know instinctively, that to take absolute rest when ill achieves the greatest chance of survival and recovery from disease and/or injury, which is the main reason for their inactivity while fasting. Exercise/activity consumes vital resources, which need to be conserved, and is seen as superfluous by them.
There is no doubting the actual biological needs of our bodies. But you are right Fonty, good health is only achieved by taking that responsibility on our own shoulders, and to not place it into the hands of others; but we should still listen to the vast experience of those who have gone before us, who have indeed laid down rules, formulated because of their own unanimous experiences with fasting as a health achievement par excellence.
Chris- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,687
This is a reply to # 1,058,417All true except your claim that 'all' fasting authorities from the past have proved the no exercise theory to be true. And I certainly know of fasting practitioners today who advocate exercising also. And I would not say boredom and other symptoms are a small price to pay if they are tough enough on a person to break their fast prematurely if that could be avoided by an enervating activity. But without my evidence in front of me I will have to discontinue this debate until I have more referable knowledge. :)
Andrew.- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
10,788
This is a reply to # 1,058,510What I meant Fonty was that the original exponents of fasting within the Natural Hygiene movement (where most of the fasting literature originated) did not recommend exercise while fasting for the recovery from disease and ill health, as they found it often meant the difference between success and failure.
I do not doubt some fasting practitioners of today do endorse exercise while fasting, but I am sure they would only recommend this in relatively healthy individuals who want or need to lose weight and other non-serious (as yet) health conditions.
I am also certain that rationally conducted exercise has its place for those fasting individuals who will benefit from it, but a one size fits all approach does not apply to everyone in varying states of health and disease.
In other words, each case should be weighed on merit and the conditions for Fasting in Health are not compatible with the ideal conditions for fasting in disease.
I really support both sides of the argument.
Chris
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,651
This is a reply to # 1,058,529Advertisement
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I will just naturally challenge most black and white statements it's a mildly annoying character trait I have. I support both sides too that's the whole point. So we've probably just made a mountain out of a mole-hill here. ;)
Andrew.- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,715
This is a reply to # 1,058,541Although challenging any black and white statement has got to be a fairly healthy character trait. Don't give up on it Fonty, coz you will probably need it again at some point.!!!
And the best mountains are always made out of mole-hills; of that there is no doubt whatsoever.
Chris
- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,715
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,651
- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
10,788
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,687
- Re: Fasting and the sauna bluedisc
17 y
9,815
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,740
- Re: Fasting and the sauna sameul11
6 y
1,767
This is a reply to # 1,057,705In fact the evidence is pretty much one way, there are at least 13 studies or so on sweating out heavy metals, and in significant quantities. I have yet to see a study that says nope..clean sweat and nothing else. So the fat that Doctors were pushing the idea that you can't "detox" from sweating shows how badly they were compromised.
- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,745
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
17 y
9,866
- Re: Fasting and the sauna treehugginghippie
17 y
9,694
This is a reply to # 1,057,319I am considering doing the same,but rather than spend an extended sauna session--I normally go 30 minutes--would alternate a few minutes in the sauna with a cold shower several times a session, and would only do this a couple of times a week while I'm fasting. If you do decide to sauna, please let me know how that works out for you. Thanks.
- Re: Fasting and the sauna chrisb1
17 y
9,952
- Re: Fasting and the sauna #90162
17 y
9,691
This is a reply to # 1,056,994I've been looking around for info about Infrared Saunas and Weight loss and saw your post. I'm thinking about purchasing a sauna from this company
http://www.thesaunadealer.com.
Here is the question have you used an Infrared Sauna and did fasting and sweatting work for you?
Thanks
- Re: Fasting and the sauna bluedisc
17 y
9,787
- Re: Fasting and the sauna veronicalives
16 y
9,653
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I myself was about to enjoy the gym sauna again, really! I was on the verge and then came across your post. I just remembered that while on the fast we are to avoid extreme elements. I am thinking that means temperatures. Let me know what u think, i am also interested in aiding my body on this fast, but not at the chance of my body making me end this fast sooner than i want.- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
16 y
9,739
This is a reply to # 1,089,703There are differing ideas on that veronica. Some do say it can be useful to do 'Active Fasting' to encourage sweating and other things to assist with detox. Most fasting authorities do say to rest while fasting though. Both can work, the important thing is to learn to listen to your body and not to overdo things, or attempt something evvervating like gym or sauna while fasting if you don't think your body is up to it.
I have done both myself, fasted with heaps of exercise and also with heaps of rest, and sometimes both! That is, exercising lots but making sure I rested prior to it and afterwards more than I usually would. Both Active Fasting and resting while fasting have their merits, it's a matter of seeing how your body copes with it's fast and safely experimenting. We can get away with a few generalisations at times when describing fasting but overall it is a very individual experience.
Andrew.- Good advice. chrisb1 16 y 9,578
- Re: Fasting and the sauna Fonty
16 y
9,739
- Re: Fasting and the sauna #89836
17 y
9,927
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