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Vegetarian/Vegan Debate Forum

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian, Vegan Debate
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Challenge the message and not the messenger!
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Personal attack is often the best indication that the writer knows his logic is flawed and therefore tries to deflect attention by attacking the opponent, instead of attacking the arguments of the opponent.
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  • A Beautiful, Inspiring Horse Rescue Story   GlacialHealth   22d
     
    Here’s a beautiful story of a woman living her principles and saving a horse. Not only did this formerly crippled horse who was going to be euthanized recover and now is running. But in the end the horse got to be reunited with her siblings again. ... ... https://www.sunchlorellausa.com/blog/watch-worthy-run-horse-rescue-story ... ... A story worth reading!   [End]
  • Slow wound healing on vegan diet?   panoslydios   86d
     
    On a vegan diet i feel better to be honest but ... i cant help but say i have developed vertical ridges on nails(mh says its the old skin shedding of) and my wound healing is slower than when on meat diet. ... ... Can someone shed a light on this?Any similar experiences?   [End]
  • To juice or not to juice vegetables?   #177123   5mo
     
    Which to do you prefer to juice or not to juice vegetables healthwise?   [End]
    • Re: To juice or not to juice vegetables?   zeus10   4mo
       
      not to juice.   [End]
    • Smoothies. ... ... There’s hardly any calories in vegeta...   natway   4mo
       
      Smoothies. ... ... There’s hardly any calories in vegetable juice. You can always add leafy greens with bananas and make green smoothies if you’re worried about not getting enough greens, but usually people aren’t getting enough fruit because fruit has been vilified. ... ... If you’re underweight and you’re health is starting to fall apart, most likely you’re not getting enough calories, so definitely smoothies to help you get the carb calories in. ... ... If you’re overweight and trying to lose weight, you’re eating too much fat and protein calories. Carb up, but keep your fat & protein intake low.   [retrieve this message]
  • Adrenal Fatigue As It Relates To Eating Meat   frugivorous   6mo  C
     
    A lion has 5 times a human’s kidney size per pound because ... the carnivorous lion has developed these through millenia. ... ... When an animal is terrorized on the way to slaughter, ... feeling the electric shocking rods on his flesh, hearing ... the screams of his fellows, he secretes massive amounts of ... adrenalin. Some of the adrenalin is broken down in cooking, ... but enough of the molecule links remain intact that ... eating meat is the equivalent of eating the fright, anger, ... terror of the animal as he or she is being killed. Not only ... is this great stress for the body, but in addition for ... emotions ...   [retrieve this message]
    • ^^^ This is a SPAM thread - moderators please delete!   #147592   6mo
       
      You claim to not like meat but you show up and post SPAM. ... ... Emotional, agenda-driven, non-factual Vegan propaganda. You offer no facts to support your claim about meat containing adrenaline, just emotional hyperbole. ... ... Many posters here will attest that eating a vegetarian or vegan diet was a major aggravating factor in developing Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome. ... ... I feel that stopping my ”plant based diet” that I was brainwashed into by similar propaganda tactics...and eating more complete (animal) protein... was the best thing I have done for my health in decades. ... ... Readers: please go to th ...   [retrieve this message]
      • I looked into a lot of the people here who got sick on a pl...   natway   4mo
         
        I looked into a lot of the people here who got sick on a plant-based diet because I switched to a more plant-based diet and it healed most of my health problems caused from years on a low-carb diet and when looking into their situations I found out that the reason most of them got sick was not because of their vegan diets per se, but because they simply under-ate on them. Under-eating long enough on any diet will get you sick. ... ... And just to let you know, ”AF” is not a real condition: ... http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2117446 ... ... ... What ”AF” really is is malnutrition and that’s why the s ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Adrenal Fatigue As It Relates To Eating Meat   #155216   4mo
       
      Yes yes, this is good information from the natway school of natural medicine. ... ... Also keep this in mind about fruit trees. ... ... It has long been known that trees are sentient beings. Proof of this exists in the Tolkien movies where giant trees wake up and help bilbo baggins defeat mordor. ... ... And if this wasn’t proof enough, if you play classical music to fruit trees they will output .2% more fruit than ones who listen to hard rock. ... ... Since they are sentient, they have the ability to absorb planetary vibrations from the soil and air. Part of these vibrations include faint sound waves that or ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Meat And Fish As A Cause Of Blindness, Arthritis, and Alzh...   frugivorous   6mo
     
    Meat and fish can cause blindness of the eyes The uric acid, the animal fat, the amyloid plaque increase pressure in the eyeballs, and are a factor also in glaucoma and cataracts. The acidification caused by meat erodes the optic nerves. The amyloid plaque, animal fat and uric acid residue line the eye arteries. Other items are eggs, milk, cheese (all with animal fat, salt, coffee, tea, chocolate, overweight.. ... ... In addition, monosodium glutamate, MSG, can break down the eye cells. The corrupt FDA allowed MSG to be hidden in foods under the label ’natural flavor or flavors’ ... ... Uric acid ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Blood Sweat And Tears: Ingredients In The Flesh Of Murdered...   frugivorous   10mo  C
     
    Blood Sweat And Tears: Ingredients In The Flesh Of Murdered Animals ... ... The uric acid (trioxypurine) in meat is more addictive than caffeine (dioxypurine.) ... ... ... Animal products kill more people annually in the US than tobacco, alcohol, traffic accidents, war, domestic violence, guns, and drugs combined. ... ... A 6 year study of 70,000 people reported in 2013 in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that vegans have a 12% longer life span than nonvegetarians. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412...0441042514.html ... ... ... A 7 year study by the US Government on Seventh Day Adve ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Wow! I didn’t expect a book to be written when I opened thi...   c.b.   9d
       
      Wow! I didn’t expect a book to be written when I opened this post, lol. ... ... Might I remind you that guns don’t kill people...bullets do. ... ... Maybe a more effective way of establishing your point would be to post something a little less lengthy. ... ... Most of what you write is probably true, but I don’t think its harmful to eat meat every once in a while. ... ... Besides, was it not the consumption of fish and coastal animals that aided in the development of the human brain?   [End]
  • Yerkes National Primate Research Center of Emory University...   frugivorous   10mo  C
     
    Humanzees and Yerkes National Primate Research Center of Emory University in Atlanta ... ... The Yerkes National Primate Research Center of Emory University in Atlanta Georgia is involved in humanzee research funded by DARPA says abolitionist ... former governor of Minnesota Jesse Ventura. A humanzee is the product of deliberate hybridization of humans and primates. Yerkes has been inflicting pain ... on primates for many years. Beth Griffin, a lab assistant at Yerkes, died in 1997 of hepatitis B. Primates at Yerkes were injected and infected with ... hepatitis B, as well as AIDS and a variety of other ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Looking for a VEGAN house mate GTA   rawrnr   11mo
     
    Please click the link below for details! ... ... http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/roo/3830890140.html   [End]
  • Harvard To Take 2 Years To Move Its Monkeys Elsewhere Th...   frugivorous   12mo  C
     
    Harvard To Take 2 Years To Move Its Monkeys Elsewhere ... ... This can be compared to a farmer selling cows to another farmer ... who will slaughter them. Harvard is still involved in research on mammals, birds, reptiles, fishes, insects and is still heavily invested in slaughterhouse, vivisection, and war profiteering. ... Nevertheless it is a first positive step in a long journey ... and frees the primates if not the other animals from ... the underground labs of Harvard in Southborough Massachusetts. ... ... http://www.boston.com/news/science/blogs/science-in-mind/2013/04/23/harvard-shut-primate-research-ce ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Mad Cow In Brazil, Denmark, Switzerland, Italy, Japan Etc.   #94749   13mo  C
     
    Mad Cow In Brazil, Denmark, Switzerland, Italy, Japan Etc. ... ... Footnote: http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/01/15/dismissing-mad-cow-as-a-random-mutation/ ... ... ... Infoplease.com reports that countries that have had recent cases of mad cow disease ... include the Czech Republic, Ireland, Northern Ireland, ... France, Germany, Greece, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, ... Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Italy, and Japan. ... ... The link quote does not include incidents of Mad Cow in the US, Brazil, or Canada. A link about possible Mad Cow ... in Australia is below. ... htt ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Mad Cow In Brazil, Denmark, Switzerland, Italy, Japan E...   #94749   11mo
       
      revised article ... ... Column : Coverup Re Mad Cow in Brazil, Japan, Switzerland, US, Canada, Netherlands, Denmark ... ... http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/01/15/dismissing-mad-cow-as-a-random-mutation/ ... ... ... Infoplease.com reports that countries that have had recent cases of Mad Cow disease ... include the Czech Republic, Ireland, Northern Ireland, ... France, Germany, Greece, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, ... Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Italy, and Japan. Reuters and other sites reports on Mad Cow in the US, Canada, Estonia, Poland ... ... Poland and Estonia h ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Beauty Benefits Of Nonflesh Diets   frugivorous   15mo
     
    Uric acid (pre urine in meat muscle cells) is a chisel .. which has engraved ... lines like a music scale in the brows of animal eaters. ... Animal fat based cholesterol is a paint brush... which tinges complexions red. ... Hormone laden animal flesh and dairy products have given many men gynecomastia ... or swelling of male breasts. ... Flesh consumption makes nonvegetarians an average 23 pounds heavier ... ... Eating flesh hastens aging, the greying of hair. ... than vegans, 11 pounds heavier than vegetarians. Generally fruitarians weigh the ... least. ... Turkey and chicken consumption gives human necks turkey watt ...   [retrieve this message]
  • [Message Subject Hidden by a Forum Moderator]   alfredong01   18mo
     
    [Message Body Hidden by a Forum Moderator]   [End]
  • Naturalism in the Veg*n and Raw Foods Movements   #143354   19mo
     
    New article: ... ... Exploring the Roots of Naturalism in the Vegetarian, Raw Foods, Natural Hygiene, and Vegan Movements ... ... Documented by excerpts from publications from the early 1800’s, supplemented with select earlier and later excerpts. ... ... http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/history/roots_naturalism.shtml ... ... Many of the more idealistic beliefs found in vegetarian-related advocacy today have historical roots in religion, mythology, and/or old, outdated science. The hostility that some modern vegetarian advocates display towards non-vegetarians has historical roots in the cultural imperi ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Personal Vegetarian Principles   Logger   22mo
     
    Principles on why I am Vegetarian ... ...   ... ... 1.        To support other people who are vegetarian ... ...   ... ... 2.      Because selecting food that does not have meat, gives me a feeling of helping avoid the exploitation of animals, raised in unnatural conditions, to serve humans.   If people eat less meat, there would be fewer cattle and other animals being raised in exploitive condtions, for the convenience of humans. ... ...   ... ... 3.     Because I feel that I am serving a greater good, by selecting to ea ...   [retrieve this message]
  • question for raw vegans   gmitch1   23mo
     
    My digestion of raw veggies, nuts and seeds is very very bad. Almost everything comes out of me looking the same as it went in. Does this mean I have to juice fast? I cant find anything that doesnt bloat me out and digests properly on a vegan diet.   [End]
  • A vegetarian diet I believe might be the perfect diet and w...   jmaf6556   23mo
     
    It, and other information, is on https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/home   [End]
  • The Truth About the China Study   Dquixote1217   25mo
     
    The Truth About the China Study ... ... "Eating foods that contain any cholesterol above 0 mg is unhealthy." -- T. Colin Campbell, The China Study ... ... It was growing up on one of the many dairy farms of the rural American landscape, long before the China Study had taken place, and yet longer before the book was written, that the young T. Colin Campbell formed the views that would shape the early portion of his career. ... ... Cow’s milk, "Nature’s most perfect food," was central to the existence of his family and community. Most of the food that Campbell’s family ate they prod ...   [retrieve this message]
    • They should change the name of the book to. ... ... The hi...   grassman   25mo
       
      They should change the name of the book to. ... ... The highly biased vegan does China. ... ... Nice post.Sad to see so many vegans believing this data spin as there gospel.   [End]
      • Image Embedded Here's another good one: The China Study - Fact or Fallacy   Dquixote1217   25mo
         
        The China Study: Fact or Fallacy? ... ... It’s no surprise “The China Study” has been so widely embraced within the vegan and vegetarian community: It says point-blank what any vegan wants to hear—that there’s scientific rationale for avoiding all animal foods . ... ... ... When I first started analyzing the original China Study data, I had no intention of writing up an actual critique of Campbell’s much-lauded book . I’m a data junkie. Numbers, along with strawberries and Audrey Hepburn films, make me a very happy girl. I mainly wanted to see for mys ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Steve Jobs Dies: Is Vegetarian Diet At Fault?   twll   30mo
     
    Something to think about. ... ... ... http://www.carbohydratescankill.com/2739/steve-jobs-dies-vegetarian-diet-at-fault   [End]
    • Between him being poisoned with chemo”therapy” and radiatio...   MrCuddly   30mo
       
      Between him being poisoned with chemo”therapy” and radiation (not to mention having his pancreas surgically removed) and the culprit being carbohydrates (that he may or may not have consumed) - I’m going with surgery, chemo, and radiation as the killers. ... ... This article really says nothing other than consuming carbs are bad and so is vegetarianism at least according to this guys theories.   [End]
    • Q. Was a Vegetarian diet at fault in the death of Steve Job...   chrisb1   30mo
       
      Q. Was a Vegetarian diet at fault in the death of Steve Jobs? ... ... Well that depends on what is meant by being Vegetarian, and the distinction between consuming refined carbohydrates (disease causing) as opposed to Complex Carbohydrates (health-promoting). ... ... These are some, and only some of the long-term advantages of plant-based, vegetarian diets, which are: ... ... #1.Vegetarian diets prevent and reduce high blood pressure..................... ... ... Ophir O, Peer G, Gilad J, et al. Low blood pressure in vegetarians: the possible role of potassium. Am J Clin Nutr 1983;37:755-62. Melby CL, Hyner GC ...   [retrieve this message]
    • There’s actually a website called carbohydratescankill.com?...   natway   4mo
       
      There’s actually a website called carbohydratescankill.com?!?!? Well they can, if you include too much fat in your diet! All the successful civilizations had a starch/carb-based diet and really only started having major health problems after they started to include more animal products (high protein & fat) in their diets. ... ... About Steve Jobs, Dr. McDougall looked into it and found, based on the evidence, that the most likely scenario was Jobs developed the slow version of pancreatic cancer when working with all those toxic metals at the HP computer company when he was still in high school ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Raw Butter   Katrinka   3y
     
    Hi, ... I was just wondering if anyone knows of good sources of raw butter. I understand that it is illegal to sell raw milk or products in most states, except for California. Yet I’ve also read that there are ways around this. ... I live in the New Mexico area. ... ... Thanks for any info you could provide me. ... ... Sincerely, ... Katrinka ... www.coloncleanseherbals.net/wordpress   [End]
  • Video Embedded Eat Meat? This is what you are supporting. Meat Video: Far...   BSA EDUCATIONAL Raynbo   3y  C
     
    Farm to Fridge ... ... ... http://www.meatvideo.com/ ...   [End]
    • Re: Eat Meat? This is what you are supporting.   grzbear   3y
       
      yea... the commercial meat industry is brutal... and wrong... so is commercial agriculture. ... ... So is being hunted and eaten alive by chimpanzees... ... ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1WBs74W4ik&feature=related ... ... Nature is very violent and brutal... no way around it if one is going to survive... especially in the wild. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
    • Thank you for posting this, Raynbo. I’d rather make my cho...   Mira528   3y
       
      Thank you for posting this, Raynbo. I’d rather make my choices out of awareness than ignorance. ... ... To each their own ... for me, I’ll continue to stay away from eating meat.   [End]
    • Re: Eat Meat? This is what you are supporting. Meat Video:...   indigoaura   26mo
       
      Don’t leave out milk and eggs! ... ... Dairy cows and factory farmed eggs are horrifically brutal forms of abuse and torture, though overlooked by vegetarians who like to point fingers at meat eaters. ... ... The fact is that our voracious appetite for animal products - and the huge corporations and government subsidies that make it affordable - is churning out an unnatural, unhealthy, chemically induced diseased products that in turn causes diseases in humans. ... ... It’s called karma. ... ...   [End]
  • If you are a Vegan you MUST supplement!!!   ineedminerals   3y
     
    Hello to all my Vegans out there. If you are a vegan or are thinking of becoming a vegan, you are NOT getting enough nutrition from your diet alone. ... ... Advertising link deleted. ... ... Why not? the fruits and vegetables we are eating do not have the nutrients in them that they once had. In fact, the FDA stated that 98% of all Americans are mineral deficient. The soils are depleted. We Must supplement. OK, so here’s what you need to know... In order for any human being to stay in optimum health, they need 60 minerals, 16 vitamins, 12 amino acids, and 3 fatty acids on a daily basis. In addition ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Interesting article that releates to this forum   #69242   3y
     
    http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/20067.html   [End]
    • Ever notice how the vegan\vegetarians run around seeking he...   grzbear   3y
       
      Ever notice how the vegan\vegetarians run around seeking help for this or that, in many cases for years, while those like me who consume high quality foods including those sourced from animal products in moderation have resolved a lifetime of health issues? ... ... Stick around long enough, pay attention to it... you will notice. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
      • Oops ... I had posted the wrong link, it’s corrected now   #69242   3y
         
        Oops ... I had posted the wrong link, it’s corrected now   [End]
      • Re: Interesting article that releates to this forum   spudlydoo   3y
         
        Very good advice Grz, When these health issues are resolved, they do not return, and then there is no need for fasts, or restrictive diets, or any other remedy, for problems that are caused from a lack of adequate nutrition. ... ... spud   [End]
      • Most vegetarians eat unbalanced diets just like most meat e...   MrCuddly   33mo
         
        Most vegetarians eat unbalanced diets just like most meat eaters. Of course those with a higher quality diet will have fewer health issues - but that has nothing to do with being vegetarian or not. ... ... Personally I was eating too much red meat (couldn’t stand seafood, chicken or turkey) and developed hypertension, high cholesterol, poor liver function and eventually had a small stroke. ... ... Instead of taking 5 different medicines the doctor said I’d need to be on for the rest of my life, I cut out meat completely. That was in addition to stopping alcohol, smoking, exercising more, and havi ...   [retrieve this message]
        • Re: Interesting article that relates to this forum   #143327   33mo
           
          Instead of taking 5 different medicines the doctor said I’d need to be on for the rest of my life, I cut out meat completely. That was in addition to stopping alcohol, smoking, exercising more, and having a higher quality diet in general. ... ... Poor analysis, as far as proving red meat is what caused your illness. This sounds like a rat study I read about recently to prove that a vegan diet was superior and it was in comparison to the other study group which consisted of a junk food diet loaded with refined sugars and wheats and denatured foods. I find striking how many fail to see these in ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Interesting article that releates to this forum   chrisb1   33mo
       
      http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/20067.html ... This is a great article which explains why juice fasting is a better way to detoxify than water fasting. ... ... Zafar ... JUICE-FASTING: ... The powerful healing therapy that no-one ever uses. ... Dr. Richard Schulze, N.D., M.H. ... ”When you don’t feel well, stop eating and go to juices.” ... SCHULZE: The first thing an animal does when it is sick is stop eating. They fast themselves. ... Likewise, the first thing we need to do when we don’t feel well is: stop food........................ ... ... ... ... Water-only fasting is far more efficacious than Juice feastin ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Yes, I agree that water fasting will cause faster detox tha...   Mira528   33mo
         
        Yes, I agree that water fasting will cause faster detox than juice fasting. ... ... But most of us are so toxic that too rapid of a detox could cause illness or even kill us. ... ... I really like Arnold Ehret’s books in this regard. He explains how important it is to be extremely careful when fasting and how the process varies greatly from one person to another. ... ... For myself, I’ve come to the conclusion that ”slow and steady wins the race”. So I fruit-juice fast and when I start to detox too fast, I slow it down by eating some fruit or a spicy tomato drink. I also sometimes add a bit of garlic ...   [retrieve this message]
        • Yes, but animals in the wild do not have juice extractors. ...   chrisb1   33mo
           
          Yes, but animals in the wild do not have juice extractors. ... ... And to say that............ ... ”But most of us are so toxic that too rapid of a detox could cause illness or even kill us”. ... ... Is complete fiction and utter nonsense. ... ... People have been known to die from starvation of course but then no one would advocate that mode of inanition. ... ... Respectfully yours. ... ... Chrisb1. ... ...   [End]
          • Hey Chris, ... ... I do respect your opinion, however ... ...   Mira528   33mo
             
            Hey Chris, ... ... I do respect your opinion, however ... I’m not talking about animals in the wild, I’m talking about humans and most of us eat processed foods, many use pharmaceuticals, many smoke, drink coffee (yes, even Curezone folks), dye hair, get perms, breathe polluted air, use shaving cream, brush teeth with fluoridated toothpaste, wear false nails, many have metals in their teeth, have been vaccinated, some even get botox ... just to name a few of the not-so-lovely things that are stored in our bodies ... and I haven’t even mentioned the parasite die-off. ... ... It’s ok to disagree, we’r ...   [retrieve this message]
            • PS Please don’t shoot the messenger. ... ... As I’ve said ...   Mira528   33mo
               
              PS Please don’t shoot the messenger. ... ... As I’ve said to other CZ folks who’ve tried to convert me to their point of view: ... ... When you’re 108 and healthy, then I’ll really listen to what you have to say about health and longevity!   [End]
              • Ha Ha..I had no intention of shooting the messenger. ... ....   chrisb1   33mo
                 
                Ha Ha..I had no intention of shooting the messenger. ... ... I was not trying to convert you to my point of view and BTW it is not just my point of view, but that of many qualified health professionals within the field of Natural Hygiene. ... However, I had to intervene and say something re’ your comment that the water-fast can kill, which is simply just not true. ... Perhaps you would like to read this from the most qualified and experienced water-fasting supervisor concerning death in the fast.......... ... http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch19.htm ... ... ”When you’r ...   [retrieve this message]
            • The problem with ”Professor” Ehret I’m afraid is that all h...   chrisb1   33mo
               
              The problem with ”Professor” Ehret I’m afraid is that all he could fathom in disease was the ”mucusless diet healing system” but we all should know that the body manufactures mucus for a reason: as a protective measure against infecting agents such as fungi bacteria and viruses. ... Mucus also aids in the protection of the lungs by trapping foreign particles that enter it. ... ... Mr Ehret was and is frowned upon by Natural Hygienists Worldwide and where they have commented on the dubious origin of his credentials. ... ... Chrisb1.   [End]
              • Many frown on and discredit the ideas of anyone who dispute...   Mira528   33mo
                 
                Many frown on and discredit the ideas of anyone who disputes the ”sacred ground” of their ideologies. Very often, the one person who has their own viewpoint that differs from the majority has much of value to say. ... ... I’m sure that there were many good men in Natural Hygiene. It’s just not something that I feel drawn to. ... ... When I look up into the night sky, I see a multitude of stars and constellations (on a clear night, that is). ... ... Sometimes I have the thought that we were each born under our own star. This leads us to each have our own light to shine upon the world. ... ... We don’t have ...   [retrieve this message]
              • Sure, I’ll be waiting! ... ... I’m not giving away my age ...   Mira528   33mo
                 
                Sure, I’ll be waiting! ... ... I’m not giving away my age but I’ve got quite a few years to go too. ... ... Wouldn’t it be cool if we could track the health records and the age of death for all the ”experts” on Curezone and in the rest of the Alternative health field. ... ... Maybe we can all meet some day, 50 or so years from now, on a tropical island and have a pineapple and coconut (or plain water if you prefer) party!   [End]
  • Angelina Jolie said 'A Vegan Diet Almost Killed Me'   #131174   3y
     
    Google angelina jolie a vegan diet almost killed me. ... ... she was vegan for years and said it was not healthy, NOT ENOUGH NUTRITION. ... ... Jolie now says a steak is her beauty secret ... ... EAT A BALANCED DIET IN MODERATION AND BE HAPPY   [End]
  • Weston Price Funding...   grzbear   3y
     
    Many people who tout vegan or vegetarian ways of life fall back on the argument that Weston Price Foundation has received funding from the beef industries in order to cast a poor light on the studies... ... ... First of all... if the people who use this approach to turn people away from the truth, knew a thing about funding studies (I have been through the grant writing and funding process a few times in my life), they would realize that the best possible sources for grants come from the industries that would have a vested interest in them. This is true for the China Study as well... a great d ...   [retrieve this message]
    • it would be common courtosey, given the number of things ad...   grzbear   3y
       
      it would be common courtosey, given the number of things addressed in this post, if those that disagreed would clarify what they disagree with. ... ... Do you disagree that the ”CLAs can be 500x the amount found in conventional dairy?” ... ... Already proven many times over... ... ... Do you disagree with ”Grain feed them and the CLA content drops dramatically, and their *fats* switch to being loaded with omega sixes... same thing with us?” ... ... Already proven many times over... ... ... Do you disagree with... ”These changes in fat content and metabolism profoundly affect EVERYTHING that relies on fatty acids i ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Wrong, NIH is publicly funded   #69302   25mo
       
      NIH gets their funding from the government. ... ... Furthermore, the industry that the Weston A. Price foundation represents is not the CAFO industry but rather, small scale traditional farms. ... ...   [End]
  • David Wolfe is beginning to understand...   grzbear   3y
     
    As he reported in the last longevity conference... scientists have found that we are 6x more genetically diverse than they once thought... ... ... He did not come right out and say it, but he did mention the value of raw dairy and other animal sources of nutrition... and that it is more or less a must for *some*. ... ... I say... most. ... ... And he also admitted adding the occasional insects to his diet... ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
    • Interesting, isn’t it, how one’s understanding evolves. ......   Katrinka   3y
       
      Interesting, isn’t it, how one’s understanding evolves. ... ... In a separate post, I asked about raw butter. Does anyone know of good sources of raw butter for a person who lives in the New Mexico area? ... ... I am mostly vegetarian but am beginning to add animal fats to my diet (like cod liver oil, krill oil and probably fish, if I knew of a good source...) ... ... I think there are a number of ways to achieve the same result, so we have a number of options. It’s a good idea to be flexible, and open to what research says about how to achieve optimal health. ... ... I enjoy reading your posts. You ha ...   [retrieve this message]
      • raw butter is tough to source in all but a few states. ... ...   grzbear   3y
         
        raw butter is tough to source in all but a few states. ... ... you can try at the link below for a start... ... ... http://realmilk.com/where4.html ... You may find some on the sly if you ask around at farmers markets and such... ... ... Or, if you can get the raw dairy, attempt making it yourself. ... ... If you drive to California a few times a year, you could get a few months supply... and bring it back home. Organic Pastures... They have raw cultured butter too. ... ... They may ship in California to whoever you may be visiting, and some Whole Foods there carry the product. ... ... grz- ... ...   [retrieve this message]
  • What happens when you tell the truth about veganism?   recovering   4y
     
    http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/22/vegan-defector-talks-back/ ... ... ... Vegan Defector Talks Back ... by Tasha on November 22, 2010 in A Vegan No More ... ... Wowee. Opening that can of worms was exciting, wasn’t it? I’m still a bit shell shocked to be honest. Lots and lots of questions were asked, points raised, opinions aired… Lots of you had lots to say. Never before have so many people converged in one place to tell me all about…me. My blog crashed the server several times, I had tens of thousands of people visit my blog in 48 hours, hundreds and hundreds of comments were written, and almost that ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Interesting that people who take B12 supplements, call vega...   spudlydoo   4y
       
      Interesting that people who take B12 supplements, call veganism a natural diet. Nothing natural about taking a pill. ... ... These diets, (and that is what they are), they have become a religion for some people, well, more like a cult really. With all the behaviours and traits that go along with being brainwashed by a cult. ... ... Very interesting though. ... ... spud   [End]
      • I did not comment on this when I first read it, however, I ...   grzbear   3y
         
        I did not comment on this when I first read it, however, I feel the need too... ... ... Vegan after vegan are now publishing books about their 15 - 20 plus years of struggling with health issues, and doing *permanent* damage to their health. ... ... ”The Vegetarian Myth” is a good read about one such former vegetarian. ... ... More doctors are specializing in *recovering* vegetarians\vegans... with chronic health issues. ... ... People... the diet you choose makes a huge difference. Please pay attention to your body’s many cries for nutrition. ... ... My grandmother had problems when she was a young mother and he ...   [retrieve this message]
    • ”Until there is a way to live without causing any death” ”U...   grzbear   4y
       
      ”Until there is a way to live without causing any death” ”Until there is a way to live without causing any death” ... ... There isn’t... all life, lives upon death, and thus *causes* death... it is the way of things. ... ... Even plants *compete* for a place to grow, choking out other plants. ... ... When produce, of any kind, and grains are grown commercially, land is stripped of all its local flora and fuana in order to make way for the *product*. ... ... That is one of the big issues with stripping the rain-forests down to the soil... ... ... Hundreds, even tens of thousands of plants, bugs, reptiles, rabbits, ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: This is a virtual repeat Duplicate post   AustinM   4y
       
      This has been posted here also by Dquixote1217 just over 2 weeks ago. Ok so its the same former vegan with a slightly different link to the same website: ... ... http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1728026#i ... ... Once again I am going to say that anyone who thinks they can be vegan or vegetarian and switch to a high soy diet is obviously on a bad path from the start. With so many of her recipes having soy substitutes for meats and dairy it is no mystery why she miserably failed as a vegan. Her voracious eats recipes are recipes for failure. As well its easy to see that being a dog owner sh ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Re: This is NOT a virtual repeat Duplicate post   recovering   4y
         
        No, it is not a repeat. Please read both posts. ... ... Quote from previous post: ”As well its easy to see that being a dog owner she could not be a real vegan to start with, but maybe perhaps just a vegetarian.” ... ... What does owning a dog have to do with being a vegan or vegetrarian?!!! ... ...   [End]
    • Re: What happens when you tell the truth about veganism?   Katrinka   3y
       
      Hi Tasha, ... What an interesting journey from veganism to a more balanced approach. I am vegetarian, mostly, but am starting to add animal fats to my diet. I do eat eggs, though. In my case, my blood type is A, which means my body handles best a mostly vegetarian diet. So I won’t be adding red meat to my diet any time soon. My health improved a lot by eliminating red meat. I do want to add back fish, though, if I knew of good uncontaminated source. I’ve read some of the research on healing tooth decay, and that is what originally started me on the journey to add animal fats to my diet ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Blood type and vegan diet   rifestudy123   4y
     
    I’ve read that certain blood types respond better to vegan diets then others. If you have a vegan diet and its going well or you’ve had a bad experience I think it would be great if you could share what you blood type you are. ... thanks   [End]
    • Before CZ, I got into the blood type diet... and it is a de...   grzbear   4y
       
      Before CZ, I got into the blood type diet... and it is a decent foundational approach to health with some tweaks IMO. ... ... in my experience, O’s have a real tough time with veganism\vegetarianism and health degrades fairly quickly. ... ... I am an O, so I paid attention to this response in *me*, and then others who also mentioned that they were O’s and had similar responses. ... ... Now, could an O be vegetarian and maintain health throughout their lifetime? Perhaps... *if* they ate a very high protein diet loaded with high quality, vegetables, primarily green and root vegetables, ferments, and skipp ...   [retrieve this message]
      • I’m an O+ non secretor, and they say I should eat a vegan d...   josephr525   3y
         
        I’m an O+ non secretor, and they say I should eat a vegan diet to help with herbal therapy to remove/reduce mucus, and I have been for 5 days, and am thinking of staying on it. I ate vegan on and off for several years, and I seemed to have more pep on vegan. I became B12 deficient, which is common in vegan diet if no B12 is taken. I plan to take Sub-l B12 this time. ... ... I did not seem to have more pep on eating meat, or after adding it. I may have added it because MD told me to, due to B12. I have a feeling I can make vegan eating work for me, but I’m not 100% sure of it. I seem to have no ...   [retrieve this message]
        • one of the single largest issues for obligatory omnivores i...   grzbear   3y
           
          one of the single largest issues for obligatory omnivores is finding decent, free range meat... and animal fats. ... ... The vast majority of animals are raised in confinement feedlot operations, where they are loaded up with GMO, cide ladened feed, waste products and antibiotics for the sole purpose of getting them to a sale-able weight in as few weeks, or months as possible... and nearly every single animal is *sick* when sent to slaughter even though they may only be weeks or months old at the time. ... ... That in itself is scary. ... ... As I stated, I do believe regardless of blood type, one can be ...   [retrieve this message]
          • Animal Proteins form a lot of mucus?   josephr525   3y
             
            Hi, ... ... I’m interested in internal cleansing with herbs, but I guess I haven’t decided how I should eat or if I should avoid animal proteins like many of them recommend (because they supposedly form a lot of mucus). Do you think type O forms less mucus when they eat animal proteins? ... ... I’m thinking I should eat some sardines or something once a day. If I don’t they say my reserves of some nutrients will start to wear down, even though it may take many years. ... ... I was reading about *many* people that could not absorb nutrients in plant foods and got pre Alzhemers and didn’t snap out of it ...   [retrieve this message]
            • ”I’m interested in internal cleansing with herbs” ”Do you t...   grzbear   3y
               
              ”I’m interested in internal cleansing with herbs” ”Do you think type O forms less mucus when they eat animal proteins?” ”I’m thinking I should eat some sardines or something once a day.” ”I was reading about *many* people that could not absorb nutrients in plant foods and got pre Alzhemers and didn’t snap out of it until some animal proteins were eaten again.” ”I think plant proteins are very good foods for us, but some of us just cannot depend on them fully to stay well.” ”I’m excited about herbs to cleanse my body but I don’t want to take backwards steps by becoming a vegan and possibly ...   [retrieve this message]
              • Hi Grz, ... ... I’ve spoken to you before here on CZ somew...   josephr525   3y
                 
                Hi Grz, ... ... I’ve spoken to you before here on CZ somewhere, it may have been years ago. ... ... I’ve been taking cayenne every day for a few weeks. I was doing good on 1/4 tsp of 90,000 HU cayenne and then my one pound of 160,000 HU Birdseye Cayenne came in, and I’ve had trouble taking that. I seem low on certain nutrients or something, because the 160k stuff speeds up my bowels too much and I start to feel drained and get palpitations. I think I’m going to go back to the 90k cayenne. ... ... I also plan to get more Wild Salmon, which they say has undetectable amounts of Mercury. I chelated with ALA ...   [retrieve this message]
                • ”I presume you don’t think animal proteins (I mean high qua...   grzbear   3y
                   
                  ”I presume you don’t think animal proteins (I mean high quality organic proteins) cause cancer?” ”Ms Gerson and all those herbal / vegan people say so many times that animal proteins cause cancer, but it’s actually the factory farmed proteins that we should avoid, is that right?” Ms Gerson and all those herbal / vegan people say so many times that animal proteins cause cancer, but it’s actually the factory farmed proteins that we should avoid, is that right?” ... ... Yes... avoid them. In todays world, it may be hard to avoid them 100%, same as it is difficult to avoid GMO’s due to the increa ...   [retrieve this message]
                  • it is very difficult to take nutritional advice from someon...   f1f1   3y
                     
                    it is very difficult to take nutritional advice from someone who can’t spell the word ’lesser’. i’m just sayin’. ... ... ... but kudos on your phrase ’obligatory omnivore’. it sounds very professional. ... ... ... ... ...   [End]
                    • Good catch... I meant to say lesser, as you have pointed ou...   grzbear   3y
                       
                      Good catch... I meant to say lesser, as you have pointed out. ... ... I am not a keyboardist... nor am I a great speller. ... ... Variations in my dialect has a bit to do with that... as does getting into a hurry with some of these posts among other things. ... ... This criticism from someone who uses *and*, instead of commas... ... ... http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1627065#i ... ... ...who uses lower case only, and seems to enjoy posting on rare occasion to ruffle feathers. ... ... Interesting. ... ... How many fingers are you pointing back at yourself when pointing *one* at me? I do think that I counted three... ... ...   [retrieve this message]
                      • You seem like an awesome keyboardist   josephr525   3y
                         
                        as well as a great [and very intelligent and educated] person that’s willing to help strangers figure out health issues. I’m sorry that you have to meet with such insults once in a while. You probably are thicker skinned than I am. ... ... Thanks again for your kind spirit and helpful info / opinion. I’m always glad to read what you have to say, and I can’t say I disagree with any of it. :) ...   [End]
                  • the *one size fits all* diet theory   josephr525   3y
                     
                    Thanks for helping me to separate the wheat from the chaff Grz. You had the answers I hoped to find. It all can be very confusing online with one forum telling you to avoid proteins and the next one telling you to eat them often. ... ... Do you think Ms Gerson and many of the herbal vegans are probably blood type A? I saw your reply about % of people that will be hurt by eating vegan, and I have no doubt that it’s an accurate estimate. Blood type O is the most common type, and people that disregard that are missing the forest for the trees, IMHO. I could tell myself that blood type doesn’t mat ...   [retrieve this message]
                    • ”Do you think Ms Gerson and many of the herbal vegans are p...   grzbear   3y
                       
                      ”Do you think Ms Gerson and many of the herbal vegans are probably blood type A?” ”I saw your reply about % of people that will be hurt by eating vegan, and I have no doubt that it’s an accurate estimate. Blood type O is the most common type, and people that disregard that are missing the forest for the trees, IMHO. I could tell myself that blood type doesn’t matter but that wouldn’t stop my body from failing if I ate vegan for many years.” ”I believe I need the proteins [at least] for breakfast for good mental clarity and sustained energy. I can be a vegan for lunch and dinner. :)” ”It se ...   [retrieve this message]
                      • other variables/issues to add/consider (typo edits)...Re: t...   unyquity   3y
                         
                        It is my opinion that there are a few VERY integral variables & issues that have been left out of this thread/discussion...that without considering, one can never hope to produce a valid result. ... ... --The condition and level of compromise/congestion of all aspects of all organs/systems that impact digestion, as well as the entire alimentary canal must be taken into account (as well as the levels, balance & lack of intestinal microbiota). A conclusion such as: ”I feel better when I eat meat/dairy, hence I know this is right for me” from a person whose organs of digestion and assimilation ar ...   [retrieve this message]
                        • Image Embedded ”--The condition and level of compromise/congestion of all ...   grzbear   3y
                           
                          ”--The condition and level of compromise/congestion of all aspects of all organs/systems that impact digestion, as well as the entire alimentary canal must be taken into account (as well as the levels, balance & lack of intestinal microbiota). A conclusion such as: ”I feel better when I eat meat/dairy, hence I know this is right for me” from a person whose organs of digestion and assimilation are compromised, doesn’t indicate a ”right” diet. Rather, it indicates that their particular selection of foods is what best bandaids or eliminates their symptoms of compromise.” ”Haven’t we YET learn ...   [retrieve this message]
                          • It is a well-known fact that vegans develop psychological i...   f1f1   3y
                             
                            It is a well-known fact that vegans develop psychological issues over the long term. The pattern is well-established. They become more and more intractable in their behavior and finally suffer some sort of nervous breakdown, and then the honest ones come forward and admit their mistakes to the world. At which point their followers (Vegan culture is always divided into authorities and followers) become enraged and feel betrayed and seek a new leader. Vegans are, however, often attractive, and are useful in the sac. But so are some carnivores so there goes that argument. ... ... Fruitarians, as t ...   [retrieve this message]
                            • ”It is a well-known fact that vegans develop psychological ...   grzbear   3y
                               
                              ”It is a well-known fact that vegans develop psychological issues over the long term.” ”Unyquity certainly has an agenda, try as she might to hide it with smiley faces and authoritative rhetoric. Whenever she is cornered she invokes the holy spirit of Dr. Christopher.” ”Raw beef liver was part of the Gerson protocol.” ”I am off to make an insect pie.” I am off to make an insect pie.” ... ... Actually, that was one of David Wolfe’s topics at the longevity conference... insects being a great source for nutrition. He seemed to express a fondness for ants himself. ... ... Pass the honey so I can dip t ...   [retrieve this message]
                              • Quick Correction/thought - Gerson did not use raw beef live...   unyquity   3y
                                 
                                ...he used raw beef liver JUICE (extracted in a Norwalk) - there is a huge difference! Then, due to bacterial contamination (and likely the unavailability of truly healthy/clean cow’s liver), it was switched to dessicated liver supplements or crude extract injection. ... ... Thought: as far as ”meat” in concerned, one of the things that is missing is this thread (among other ’meat issues’) is how much longer & harder the body has to work to extract the nutrients out of meat than it does from plants. The energy and resources expended on the digestive process is HUGE (creation of the various en ...   [retrieve this message]
                                • it’s JUICE!!! ... ... calm yourself. ... ... the differen...   f1f1   3y
                                   
                                  it’s JUICE!!! ... ... calm yourself. ... ... the difference between liver juice and raw liver is insignificant. ... ... how would i know? ... ... been there done that. ... ... the fact remains you are pimping for the vegans but yet one of your heroes used raw animal organs as an essential part of his protocol. the point speaks for itself. ... ... schulze is a bloated pig. he is obviously not doing something correct because he looks like hell. i can pick random names out of a hat of alternative healers who are healthier than him. bald, fat and bloated does not inspire confidence. i’d rather take my chances with a poor ...   [retrieve this message]
                                • ”...he used raw beef liver JUICE (extracted in a Norwalk) -...   grzbear   3y
                                   
                                  ”...he used raw beef liver JUICE (extracted in a Norwalk) - there is a huge difference! Then, due to bacterial contamination (and likely the unavailability of truly healthy/clean cow’s liver), it was switched to dessicated liver supplements or crude extract injection.” ”Thought: as far as ”meat” in concerned, one of the things that is missing is this thread (among other ’meat issues’) is how much longer & harder the body has to work to extract the nutrients out of meat than it does from plants. The energy and resources expended on the digestive process is HUGE (creation of the various enzy ...   [retrieve this message]
                                  • Agree! Disagree! And would add more clarification to some i...   unyquity   3y
                                     
                                    Agree! Disagree! And would add more clarification to some if time allowed. You have my utmost respect and always will...even though we disagree on some things quite a bit. ... ... I’m sure there’s one thing we all need to remember, and that’s that we’re all in different ”states”...and you and I have made HUGE strides along our healing/learning pathways (that many have not). Being in touch with our own ’doctors within’ as strongly as we are is something that not everyone has as a tool they can depend upon ... ... We’ve been working diligently to correct our bodies and bring them into harmony and he ...   [retrieve this message]
                                    • My digestion "is good, according to my good recent bloodwor...   josephr525   3y
                                       
                                      Hi, ... ... I asked my NMD recently if he thought I should take plant enzymes or/and pancreatin and he told me no and that my digestion ”is good, according to my good recent bloodwork”. Yet I don’t absorb things. I’m deficient in magnesium and haven’t the Mg capacity to jog a mile at a time like I could do in the 80s, I’ve taken 800 mg of Mg Malate every day, and have used Mg oil, Epsom salt baths, I’ve even had Mg injections via the IV Meyer’s Cocktail. ... ... In Nov ’09 I flew from here to Charlotte NC and then on to Seattle, literally crossing the USA to see a woman about help with Mercury chela ...   [retrieve this message]
                          • 'not ignoring you, ran out of time, must have sleep! :) n/m...   unyquity   3y
                            • Get your sleep Uny. ... ... I forgot to mention one other ...   grzbear   3y
                               
                              Get your sleep Uny. ... ... I forgot to mention one other rather intriguing variable... Many of these *healers* were dealing with the first and second generations, and possibly a third with these issues... now we are 7 - 8 generations deep in this muck. ... ... In 1936 you may remember from our posts in the past, scientists were already sounding alarm bells about the falling nutritional value of food in our diets. ... ... And again, I would like to reiterate, that these healers also grew up in the time of huge, very aggressive, anti-raw milk campaigns... some of them were inclined to believe the misinfor ...   [retrieve this message]
                        • Paavo Airola about hypoglycemia   josephr525   3y
                           
                          Hi Uny, ... ... One of the first health books I ever had was a book by Paavo Airola about hypoglycemia. I got that around 1980. I followed his way of eating to a tee for quite a while, and it really made me feel quite good. I don’t seem to have that book any more. ... ... Maybe it is a band-aid solution for me to eat wild salmon with my breakfast but TTYTT, it’s the only solution I have as of yet. It’s hard for me to toss that away after seeing it give me lots better mental clarity and sustained energy. When/if I feel lots better after/during herbal cleansing, perhaps I can look at diet again and po ...   [retrieve this message]
                          • To tell you the truth.....   josephr525   3y
                             
                            I don’t think I had more pep on eating vegan diet. I improved at first because I’d eaten the SAD diet up until 1981 or so, but after that I ate animal proteins sporadically and was up and down like a yo-yo for many years. Actually, animal proteins may have helped to ground me. I’m afraid to give up all animal proteins. My animal protein breakfasts each day seem the THE best way I could start a day. I’m very hesitant of starting the day with a starch like oats or barley as some herbal / vegan doctors recommend. This sounds like an incomplete meal for my body, especially right now. Salmon ma ...   [retrieve this message]
                            • ”I was reading about a lady named Susan Schenk that ate all...   grzbear   3y
                               
                              ”I was reading about a lady named Susan Schenk that ate all vegan for 7 years and got ill and went back to animal proteins. She wrote at least 2 books.” ”I was reading about a lady named Susan Schenk that ate all vegan for 7 years and got ill and went back to animal proteins. She wrote at least 2 books.” ... ... A few people are starting to come forward with honest reports on their failures with health and vegetarianism... others will follow. ... ... Is a full blown omnivore diet right for everyone... NO. That being said, I do think some animals proteins and fats are good for *most* people to one ...   [retrieve this message]
                              • Yes but...   josephr525   3y
                                 
                                is this taking into consideration the herbal cleansing that Uny talks of? She says that a cleansed body with organs that work right will not need much or any animal protein. We tend to talk of people in general, without regard for the herbal cleansing. This tends to confuse me some, but I do think I’ll get it. ... ... Joe   [End]
                                • ”is this taking into consideration the herbal cleansing tha...   grzbear   3y
                                   
                                  ”is this taking into consideration the herbal cleansing that Uny talks of? She says that a cleansed body with organs that work right will not need much or any animal protein” ”is this taking into consideration the herbal cleansing that Uny talks of? She says that a cleansed body with organs that work right will not need much or any animal protein” ... ... If the herbal cleansing can change the ability of a person to convert plant nutrition... ... ... It may work for some. ... ... There has NEVER been an entirely vegan\vegetarian society throughout history... ever. ... ... There have been people who have ...   [retrieve this message]
                          • Image Embedded Re: Paavo Airola about hypoglycemia   unyquity   3y
                             
                            Joe, ... ... My calling is to teach the works of the healers I have researched to have consistently and effectively cured the most people of the most insidious & compromising diseases. I’ve done my best to combine their protocols by keeping the things they all had in common and throwing out the ’loose threads’ where they differed (or used chemicals or isolates with the potential to cause harm, that could be replaced with something more natural & safe). ... ... (Btw, since mood & emotions do not come across well on a monitor, I want you to know their is ZERO anger or frustration in my voice right no ...   [retrieve this message]
                            • Interesting. ... ... It’s true that I may be bandaiding m...   josephr525   3y
                               
                              Interesting. ... ... It’s true that I may be bandaiding my symptoms, but all I know is that I don’t want to lose more muscle. I’m afraid I’ll never be able to regrow it if I lose more. In 1990 I took high tech iron [iron orotate, etc.] and got too much iron. The bottle said on it ”do not take more than one tablet a day” but I took more than that. In the 80s, I had to take iron daily to have energy to perform at work, and if I didn’t, I’d feel very tired and anemic.I then avoided meat for a year or two and lived on potatoes, onions, puffed corn, and soy protein powder. I was afraid that if I a ...   [retrieve this message]
                              • Uny spends a great deal of time, and puts a great deal of t...   grzbear   3y
                                 
                                Uny spends a great deal of time, and puts a great deal of thought into her posts, especially if they are specific to an individual asking for help. Be patient with her... ... ... My advise to you, being 59, is to ensure a moderate exercise program focusing less on aerobic exercise, and more on weights. if you can convert plant based nutrition, you should be fine with the protein. ... ... if not... keep a bit of animal protein and fat in your diet. ... ... That brings me to another thought... I am not so sure that my statements that some individual’s inability to *convert* plant based nutrition to a us ...   [retrieve this message]
                                • "I’m sorry if I slowed down your progress on my plan. ...   Willowley   3y
                                   
                                  "I’m sorry if I slowed down your progress on my plan. I wasn’t thinking you’d pop in here and spend a long time on my replies. With my luck I’ll cash in my chips before the plan is ready. I seem destined for bad luck." ... ... I’m sorry you feel that way and I think you’re going feel badly about that statement when you see just how thorough her post is.  What Grz says regarding Uny is the ABSOLUTE truth! ... ... Willow  ...   [End]
                                  • I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I didn’t mean it to sound l...   josephr525   3y
                                     
                                    I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I didn’t mean it to sound like I’m impatient with Uny or anyone. I’m very tired today. I have a mentally imbalanced ex boss that loves to see and make me suffer, and I’m angry about it. ... ... For 23 years my ex boss has controlled a lot of things in my life and it’s hard to know if/when he has his nose into something, TTYTT. ... ... You sound more upset than anyone I’ve noticed so far on Uny’s forum. Maybe it would be a good idea if I quit posting at Uny’s forum.. Seems that I’ve already made an enemy, and I never even replied to you before, until this reply. You so ...   [retrieve this message]
                                    • I’m sorry you’re having such trouble with your ex-boss, it’...   Willowley   3y
                                       
                                      I’m sorry you’re having such trouble with your ex-boss, it’s never easy when someone wants to make you miserable! ... ... I wasn’t offended, upset or angry, I’m sorry about the caps, they weren’t typed in anger at all. I sometimes forget that typing in caps is considered ’shouting’, I use them often to emphasize a word. ... ... You have NOT (oops, there I go again with the caps) made an enemy of me at all and I’m not ’hot headed’, you can check on my posting history to find that out lol. And you have replied to me when I posted in threads of yours on the forum. ... ... I don’t hate you or anyone and ther ...   [retrieve this message]
                            • Keep plugging away at what you do best uny... you are a mos...   grzbear   3y
                               
                              Keep plugging away at what you do best uny... you are a most valuable asset here. ... ... I feel privileged and humbled to know you... even if it is in the ether. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
                              • I totally agree. Uny is a gem.   josephr525   3y
                                 
                                If she doesn’t know about something, it probably doesn’t matter anyway. :) Sometimes I read into her replies just to see what she has to say about whatever, and it’s very interesting, and with her positive attitude and sunshiney disposition, it’s always a good read. It’s good to see there are people in the world like her.   [End]
                            • Interesting and unique POV   josephr525   3y
                               
                              Maybe I should start thinking ”outside of the box”. In the state I’m in, it’s not easy to process tons of info regarding diets, protein, cleansing, being a vegan, etc., etc., and at times it all becomes a blur. I do think I want to proceed with this and am willing to quit all protein during the cleanse, and possibly even after. Maybe Dr Christopher’s one protein meal per week might work OK then. If side effects appear, I can always eat more protein, if I’m sure I need it. ... ... I hope you didn’t take my reply to sound like I was impatient of you. I was thinking of my ex boss and wondering if ...   [retrieve this message]
                          • Re: Paavo Airola about hypoglycemia   RyanD   3y
                             
                            Animal based long chain fatty acids is the only way for many ,those who insist otherwise should live in another persons shoes for a while, then they would see how foolish this one size fits all mentality really is!   [End]
                    • Re: the *one size fits all* diet theory   grzbear   3y
                       
                      Joe... ... ... Watch Daniel Vitalis on Youtube... ... ... And any of the longevity conference vids with him you can find free. ... ... Most interesting will be his videos with Arthur Haines... who *knows* how the Native Americans traditionally *processed* foods and herbs to maximize nutrient availability and efficacy, AND eliminate the anti-nutrients in them. ... ... They *cooked*, certain foods, and used things like alkaline ashes, etc. in order to do this. ... ... In the end... *you* have to decide what resonates with you or not. ... ... Try not to get confused... though some of the science is intriguing and convinci ...   [retrieve this message]
                      • I seldom react to a food these days   josephr525   3y
                         
                        Back in the 80s I became allergic to many foods and had to rotate foods all the time, but those allergies faded away [knock on wood]. I got onto health foods around 1980 and in the mid 80s developed bacterial problems and had to start avoiding fruits, etc., and for years I ate only grains, vegs, meats, and legumes, nuts, and seeds. ... ... I don’t react to many foods at all but food combining seems to help. I’m kind of way past the stage of food journals. ... ... If I cleanse my body and my organs start to work the way they’re supposed to, I may do a lot better at being a vegan than many people do. ...   [retrieve this message]
                        • Cool! ... ... I do not think that you can go wrong with an...   grzbear   3y
                           
                          Cool! ... ... I do not think that you can go wrong with any number of approaches... some perhaps being better than others for some folks. ... ... Unyquity walking you through hers, which is strongly rooted in some very strong, and successful methods, is one of the best IMO. ... ... Uny and I disagree on a *few* things quite a bit as they apply to *all* people. ... ... As you cleanse, your system begins to work better and corrects itself... ... ... You may become more sensitive to the foods you should be avoiding so pay attention to your body, mind, soul, and your meals. A food, and herbal journal is still a great ...   [retrieve this message]
                          • Hi Grz, ... ... Did you ever post on the MMS forum? I reme...   josephr525   3y
                             
                            Hi Grz, ... ... Did you ever post on the MMS forum? I remember you from some CZ forums. ... ... Yeah, following an energetic, very bright person like Uny [or yourself for that matter] can’t be a bad thing. If she can make me have her type of energy, I’ll really be onto something good. ... ... ... ... You may become more sensitive to the foods you should be avoiding so pay attention to your body, mind, soul, and your meals. ... ... ...   ... ... ... I believe it, and I will do that. This should be interesting. I knew there had to be some awesome CZ forums, it was just a matter of finding the right one[ ...   [retrieve this message]
                            • I may have posted a time or two in the MMS forum. I was in...   grzbear   3y
                               
                              I may have posted a time or two in the MMS forum. I was intrigued when it first began to be discussed, however, quickly backed off of it making a decision that it was not the way to go at all. ... ... It may be a viable option available to some, in certain circumstances for use as a powerful *conventional medicine*, however IMO, it would do more damage than good if used for any length of time. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
                              • Me too. I had to have a bottle of ”the $19.95 miracle cure”...   josephr525   3y
                                 
                                Me too. I had to have a bottle of ”the $19.95 miracle cure” as soon as I heard about it, and probably used about 10 drops total, and that was about 5 years ago. I still have the stuff and it’ll likely be thrown away one of these days. Taking MMS would be like taking h202 internally, and I don’t need any of that. ... ... Joe   [End]
    • Re: Blood type and vegan diet   josephr525   3y
       
      I’m a type O+ nonnie and responded well to the ER4YT way of eating but drifted away from it because I found eating that way boring.. was thinking of being a vegan but I’m starting to have doubts. I think I need t least one properly combined protein meal for breakfast every day. I do think I NEED that, probably a low stress protein like salmon, sardines, turkey, lightly cooked or raw egg, soaked seeds or nuts, and no dairy products. ... ... I ate vegan off and on for many years and was kind of like a roller coaster much of that time due to imbalances and deficiencies. I probably don’t want to go ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Whale Wars is a perfect example of veganism.   recovering   4y
     
    I think I’ll put in my two cents worth on an off topic(vegan) subject. ... ... Does anyone follow the cable show ”Whale Wars”? I watched this show for the last two seasons, not because I agree with their activism, but because TV in America is so awful there is very little that I can stand to watch. ... ... Anyhow, for anyone who watches the show, you know that the crew does a lot of dumb things. There is constant arguing on the ship. A lot of it is shown on the air, but even more isn’t. You only know something happened when the ship stops for supplies and a half dozen or more people leave the sh ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Good show. It’s one of the only ”reality” shows that I’ll ...   VeryGnawty   4y
       
      Good show. It’s one of the only ”reality” shows that I’ll watch because it’s, well... realistic. ... ... I’ve watched many episodes of this show, and you are right in that I’ve never seen mention of the fact that the Sea Shepherds are entirely vegan. The only time you hear about it is from interviews or other programs where Paul mentions it. ... ... Paul Watson does seem to be rather large for someone who is completely vegan. Maybe he is fond of vegan cookies, or something.   [End]
    • ”veganism has negative affects on your ability to reason an...   grzbear   4y
       
      ”veganism has negative affects on your ability to reason and handle stress. By the way, the captain and Sea Shepherd chief executive, Paul Watson is the FATTEST vegan I have ever seen! He is either a total hypocrite or he’s drinking lots of vegan BEER when the ships are in port!” ”veganism has negative affects on your ability to reason and handle stress. By the way, the captain and Sea Shepherd chief executive, Paul Watson is the FATTEST vegan I have ever seen! He is either a total hypocrite or he’s drinking lots of vegan BEER when the ships are in port!” ... ... Just for the record, I will al ...   [retrieve this message]
    • veganism has negative affects on your ability to reason and...   grzbear   4y
       
      veganism has negative affects on your ability to reason and handle stress. veganism has negative affects on your ability to reason and handle stress. ... ... somewhat related posts... ... ... http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1728782 ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
  • A Vegan No More - The Story of a Recovering Vegan   Dquixote1217   4y
     
    Note:  This is the story o f a former hardcore vegan who quit and went back to eating meat.  Veganism, it turned out, was killing her physically, and it led to a epiphany for her – humans are supposed to eat meat. She decided that veganism was a direct contradiction of her being human.  It is perhaps a sad commentary on the radicalism in the vegan movement that this person received tons of hate messages as a result of telling her story, including threats against her and her family. ... ... A Vegan No More - The Story of a Recovering Vegan ... ... as posted by Tasha at htt ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Video Embedded Re: A Vegan No More - The Story of a Recovering Vegan 2   grassman   4y
       
      ”Susan E. Schenck”Finally woke up after falling apart at the seems.   [End]
    • Re: A Vegan No More - The Story of a Recovering Vegan   #132635   4y
       
      DQ, did Hypoglycemia not reveal itself in her blood test whilst on the Vegan diet?   [End]
    • I do not want to comment on her diet because only she reall...   AustinM   4y
       
      I do not want to comment on her diet because only she really knows what she was taking when she was a vegan but from a quick glimpse it looked very unhealthy with loads of processed sugars and other strange processed vegan ingredients. Most processed vegan ingredients like dairy substitutes are made of soy and unfermented soy is believed by many to be dangerous and unhealthy. ... ... blog on her favorite dessert recipe: ... http://voraciouseats.com/2010/09/28/peanut-butter-mousse-brownie-pie/ ... ... If you look at a story such as the raw family of Victoria Boutenko as they too hit a wall after a few ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Re: A Vegan No More - The Story of a Recovering Vegan   #132635   4y
         
        Strange.   [End]
      • There are ways to fail on any diet. Without a full analysi...   InnerCalm   4y
         
        There are ways to fail on any diet. Without a full analysis of what was being eaten we have nothing to go on. ... ... Most of the people I know who failed as vegans did so because they didn’t understand the relationship between soil and plants. If the food is not highly mineralizing one is set up to fail long term. ... ... Don;t even get me started on the junk food variation. ... ... There are some extremely healthy vegans to model one’s diet after. Scary healthy.   [End]
        • I agree. Without knowing exactly what she was consuming, i...   VeryGnawty   4y
           
          I agree. Without knowing exactly what she was consuming, it’s hard to tell whether or not she was eating healthy. ... ... Also, she sounds like someone who is very extreme. In my experience, people who are ”extreme” with their diets often fail. They tend to deny both common wisdom and common sense to try to ”force” things to work. Things rarely ever work that way.   [End]
          • ”They tend to deny both common wisdom and common sense to t...   grzbear   4y
             
            ”They tend to deny both common wisdom and common sense to try to ”force” things to work. Things rarely ever work that way.” ”They tend to deny both common wisdom and common sense to try to ”force” things to work. Things rarely ever work that way.” ... ... This is true... and a good description of a few vegans I have known who maintained their beliefs as their health, teeth, and gums rotted away becoming to weak to do much more than work 5x8 in their 40’s. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
            • There are so many that have bad teeth and gums and dentures...   AustinM   4y
               
              There are so many that have bad teeth and gums and dentures and all of them that I know are all happy meat eaters, just opposite your observation. As well, all the people that I know that had cancer and diabetes were all meat eaters too. ... ... Common wisdom is hard to come by; but common sense dictates that we humans are not really designed to eat animals. ...   [End]
              • ”all the people that I know that had cancer and diabetes we...   InnerCalm   4y
                 
                ”all the people that I know that had cancer and diabetes were all meat eaters too.” ... ... Ditto. ... ... Add a raft of other illnesses. ... ... Also it must be mentioned that cooked diets are not healthy either, vegan included. Then there is toxic processed foods. ... ... This is why these blanket statements about veganism hold no water. The devil is in the details.   [End]
                • ”This is why these blanket statements about veganism hold n...   grzbear   4y
                   
                  ”This is why these blanket statements about veganism hold no water. ” ”This is why these blanket statements about veganism hold no water. ” ... ... change the word *veganism* with *omnivores* and I think we got it on both sides of the fence. :-) ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
              • cancer and diabetes are diseases of civilization and proces...   grzbear   4y
                 
                cancer and diabetes are diseases of civilization and processed foods, especially sugar and refined grains. That has been shown over and over again in the literature. And very likely why vegetarians get these SAME diseases too. ... ... Omnivores *tend* to eat conventional and processed meats... and that is a huge problem too. This does not happen with omnivores of unprocessed, range fed, chemical free animals. ... ... As IC mentioned it is about the soil... for both plants and the animals\humans that live *off* of it. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
        • ”There are ways to fail on any diet. Without a full analysi...   grzbear   4y
           
          ”There are ways to fail on any diet. Without a full analysis of what was being eaten we have nothing to go on.” ”Most of the people I know who failed as vegans did so because they didn’t understand the relationship between soil and plants. If the food is not highly mineralizing one is set up to fail long term.” ”There are some extremely healthy vegans to model one’s diet after. Scary healthy.” There are some extremely healthy vegans to model one’s diet after. Scary healthy.” ... ... Yes, or so they say... I have never met one... yet. I do believe that about 20% of the population *may* be able ...   [retrieve this message]
    • good thread DQ... thanks for posting. ... ... This isn’t t...   grzbear   4y
       
      good thread DQ... thanks for posting. ... ... This isn’t the only former vegan I have run across that found their health failing... began to eat some animal based foods and regained their health in short order. ... ... There is NO need for people to suffer, nor should people have to order or purchase foods from half a country or globe away in order to maintain sufficient variety to be somewhat lucid and healthy. ... ... A *healthy vegan* must do both unless they are blessed to live in a year round garden climate... or have a green thumb and dedicate their lives to farming... hard to do if one has to work ...   [retrieve this message]
    • There are tons of vegans out there that don’t get sick etc....   newmember2004   4y
       
      There are tons of vegans out there that don’t get sick etc..If you get sick on vegan diet..then it has to do with your body, thoughts etc. If it were true that vegan diet makes you sick..then all other vegans out there would be sick. Eating vegan diet and having thoughts about meat, meat, meat..will make you sick, you may not be aware of it. Our thoughts, belief system play such an important part of our life and what happens to us and how we feel. Bottom line, you love food, you love meat..if that is your desire and then going on a vegan diet..you will crash, as you did. It is very sad..bu ...   [retrieve this message]
      • But do you slaughter and clean those animals yourself? ... ...   daizymae   4y
         
        But do you slaughter and clean those animals yourself? ... ... Anyway, I think you did the right thing. No use eating a deficient and unsuitable diet for political beliefs, which your article is so full of. ... ... You think that population reduction by birth control is the answer? Ha ha ha! Only white people listen to this kind of advice! Africans-Asians-Islanders-Aboriginals-Mexicans never do. They just keep having 6-12 kids per woman. Are you going to say this? Nah, I didn’t think so. It doesn’t fit in with your Marxist feminist politics. ... ... You talk about ”a violently woman hating societ ...   [retrieve this message]
        • It is unbelievable that a person of sensitivity, awareness,...   #13442   4y
           
          It is unbelievable that a person of sensitivity, awareness, understanding, love, can eat meat. And if they can eat meat then something is missing they are still unconscious somewhere of what they are doing.. They say ’oh the farmers are doing so and so..etc..etc’ There are no excuses. YOu can write pages about it venting your anger..still no excuses. You decided on being ’vegan no more’, you feel it is necessary to back to eating meat etc..etc.. Then do so, why put it up here for everyone to see..and argue about. You feel your diet is deficient etc..Speak to your doctor, your spouse, kids ...   [retrieve this message]
          • More proof that veganism is dangerous   recovering   4y
             
            Vegans in this debate forum continue to prove the health dangers of veganism. Here is more proof. ... ... <<You decided on being ’vegan no more’, you feel it is necessary to back to eating meat etc..etc.. Then do so, why put it up here for everyone to see..and argue about.>> Because the author, Tasha, was destroying her health with veganism, and one steak, brought an immediate end to her suffering. Tasha’s doctor told her many times that the vegan diet was destroying her health but she didn’t listen.  The vegan diet destroys your brain’s abilit ...   [retrieve this message]
            • ” Tasha did seek medical help. Her doctor made it clear th...   VeryGnawty   4y
               
              ” Tasha did seek medical help. Her doctor made it clear that veganism was destroying her health. Veganism is destroying your ability to think and reason. You need to be told again, and again, and again…about Tasha visiting her doctor even though it was a major portion of the original post.” ... ... ... I agree. The whole article was about how the blogger refused to listen to her doctor, and then she started to get better once she started eating meat again. ... ... It sounds like someone completely didn’t read the blog.   [End]
            • ”Vegan diet is destroying your brain” Vegan Diet is destroy...   #13442   4y
               
              ”Vegan diet is destroying your brain” Vegan Diet is destroying your brain” Vegan diet is destroying your brain” Vegan Diet is destroying your brain” ... ... YOu keep feeding your mind all these thoughts, OUr thoughts are energy that eventually become things.You become what you think. So keep on repeating your mantra ”vegan diet is destroying my brain” over and over again..and that is exactly what it will do. It is not the vegan diet that put you to ill health..it was your thoughts. If it were true that vegan diet is so harmful, then it would have happened to all vegans..For example: if you take ...   [retrieve this message]
              • <YOu keep feeding your mind all these thoughts, OUr thou...   recovering   4y
                 
                <YOu keep feeding your mind all these thoughts, OUr thoughts are energy that eventually become things.You become what you think. So keep on repeating your mantra ”vegan diet is destroying my brain” over and over again..and that is exactly what it will do. It is not the vegan diet that put you to ill health..it was your thoughts.>    So, my meat eating thoughts are destroying your vegan brain?   Nope, no damage to your thought processes from the vegan diet. ... ... ... <I am still alive, and so are my kids and many people I know.>   I challenge you to do a ...   [retrieve this message]
                • Your brain is shrinking, not mine or the many vegans I know...   #13442   4y
                   
                  Your brain is shrinking, not mine or the many vegans I know...in 7 years, My brain has not shrunk. It doesn’t matter what google says, Google is not my body.YOu do not need ’meat’ to get sufficient b12 or proteins..Vegan diet itself does not cause brain shrinkage, lack in certain things like b12 I perhaps.. Let me tell you something, i ate beef, pork, fish, liver was my favorite..all types of meat every single day..one point my iron was so low, I had to be rushed to emergency dept. for blood transfusion. I had to be hospitalized for one month because of that. At one point I had to go for ...   [retrieve this message]
                  • You are truly a very much needed breath of fresh air around...   Raynbo   4y
                     
                    You are truly a very much needed breath of fresh air around here....but I must take issue with your calling a woman in her 60s ”elderly”. True, we are getting there, but we are not there yet!   [End]
                  • Re: More proof that veganism is NOT dangerous   AustinM   4y
                     
                    ". Let me tell you something, i ate beef, pork, fish, liver was my favorite..all types of meat every single day..one point my iron was so low, I had to be rushed to emergency dept. for blood transfusion. I had to be hospitalized for one month because of that. At one point I had to go for weekly b 12 injections that was painfull." ... ... Its also strange that ALL the people that I know that revealed they have anemia iron deficiency and there are many are all meat eaters.  As well ALL the people that I know that get B12 shots are all meat eaters too!  Kind of strange ho ...   [retrieve this message]
                    • post deleted   #22924   4y
                       
                      <". Let me tell you something,   [End]
                    • Re: More proof that veganism is NOT dangerous   #13442   4y
                       
                      It is so easy to blame vegetarianism/veganism. Did anyone ever think where the cows get their B12?? from the grass, soil, fermentation in their digestive system?? I was so sick of being sick, every single week, the mirgraines. The thing is that when I found out I was anemic I was 14 years old, I increased my meat eating..thinking it would really help..I only got sicker and sicker..Until one day, I met this man 75 years old vegan his whole life..didn’t suffer from any of these things. Then I tried vegetarianism and failed so many times..until I cut back, then slowly work my way into it..the ...   [retrieve this message]
                    • I was found to have B12 deficiency in 1986   josephr525   3y
                       
                      After many years of on and off again vegan eating, I was found to have B12 deficiency in 1986, and I took B12 shots once a month for several years, which seemed to help me gain some needed weight. I do believe I’m one of them that needs *some* animal protein, probably a little with breakfast each day would be wise for me. I could probably go months on vegan way of eating but I have a hunch that would not be wise for this body. ... ... I’m really not sure if I should eat animal proteins once a day, once every other day, or just once a week. I tend to think every other day should be the minimum f ...   [retrieve this message]
          • Re: A Vegan No More - The Story of a Recovering Vegan   #5043   3y
             
            With all due respect, your reply just doesn’t make any sense, and is extremely hypocritical at the very least. ... ... You criticize the poster for posting his story here, suggesting it’s inappropriate for him to state his views, yet it’s perfectly okay for you to post yours, I guess because you’re right, and he/she is wrong? ... ... ”What is the point of putting it up on a public forum?” ... ... Uh, maybe to warn others, and/or see if others have experienced the same issues? ... ... ”It is unbelievable that a person of sensitivity, awareness, understanding, love, can eat meat. And if they can eat meat then s ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Food for thought...   grzbear   4y
     
    ANY person who is unable to covert one or more plant based nutritional components into the right forms required for *animal* metabolic processes, due to a lack of the proper intestinal flora and\or issues with cellular metabolism, CANNOT ever achieve optimal health on a vegetarian diet... this issue would be further exacerbated in the individual IF they insisted on raw vegetarian\vegan. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
    • Re: Food for thought...Joe Rollino   AustinM   4y
       
      Have you heard of strongman Joe Rollino age 104? A lifetime vegetarian died after being hit by a car while jogging. His story is one of many countless vegetarian health stories ”the model of health” according to the article. ... ... http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1726749#i ... ... What is the proper intestinal flora and how to acheive it is a matter of learning. Vegetarian is very healthy if done properly, and raw is the only way animals eat their food in the wild. Humanity was not born to do cooking either.   [End]
      • Cooking is the beginning of much disease and the shorting o...   InnerCalm   4y
         
        Cooking is the beginning of much disease and the shorting of life span. It mutilates food. The chemical changes are numerous.   [End]
        • True but not universally true. Cooking did not ap...   Dquixote1217   4y
           
          True but not universally true. Cooking did not appear to have any negative affecta on Joe Rollino, who was a vegetarian but NOT a raw vegetarian.  He began each day with a bowl of cooked oatmeal. ... ... Besides what Joe ate, what he avoided likely was important for his health and longevity too.  In addition to heeding his mother’s advice to avoid meat (which would have kept him away from unhealthy processed and feedlot type meat) he also avoided cigarettes and alcohol. ...   [End]
          • ”Besides what Joe ate, what he avoided likely was important...   grzbear   4y
             
            ”Besides what Joe ate, what he avoided likely was important for his health and longevity too. In addition to heeding his mother’s advice to avoid meat (which would have kept him away from unhealthy processed and feedlot type meat) he also avoided cigarettes and alcohol.” ”Besides what Joe ate, what he avoided likely was important for his health and longevity too. In addition to heeding his mother’s advice to avoid meat (which would have kept him away from unhealthy processed and feedlot type meat) he also avoided cigarettes and alcohol.” ... ... good add and points... ... ... *meat* was perhaps T ...   [retrieve this message]
        • Should have a fairly good balance between the two. Some fo...   grzbear   4y
           
          Should have a fairly good balance between the two. Some foods provide more nutritional value of *some* nutrients when raw, and other nutrients when cooked. ... ... In addition, some foods ONLY provide appreciable amounts of fat soluble nutrition when eaten with fats. For many people, animal\fish\fowl fats are much better than plant based fats for absorption purposes as I eluded to in my posts. ... ... Of course, all sources must be of the highest quality... which means unpolluted, pastured, free range animals, and wild caught. ... ... Bone broths, which may be simmered for days, are also an example of ...   [retrieve this message]
      • ”Have you heard of strongman Joe Rollino age 104?” ”A lifet...   grzbear   4y
         
        ”Have you heard of strongman Joe Rollino age 104?” ”A lifetime vegetarian died after being hit by a car while jogging. His story is one of many countless vegetarian health stories ”the model of health” according to the article.” ”What is the proper intestinal flora and how to acheive it is a matter of learning.” ”Vegetarian is very healthy if done properly, and raw is the only way animals eat their food in the wild. Humanity was not born to do cooking either.” Vegetarian is very healthy if done properly, and raw is the only way animals eat their food in the wild. Humanity was not born to d ...   [retrieve this message]
        • As you correctly pointed out, there is no historical record...   Dquixote1217   4y
           
          As you correctly pointed out, there is no historical record of peoples eating only a strict vegetarian diet and without meat man would not have survived.  Likewise, as I have pointed out - man has lived, evolved/adapted for many, many thousands of years and has always had meat as an important part of their diet.  How anyone can look at the history of mankind and say that nature intended us to be vegetarians is beyond me. ... ... People can argue all they want about the benefits of eating plenty of vegetables and I may agree in many instances, but I can never agree that eating only ve ...   [retrieve this message]
          • ”Man may not have been born cooking, but once man had the t...   grzbear   4y
             
            ”Man may not have been born cooking, but once man had the tool he used it extensively. A great many foods are best eaten raw, but some foods absolutely are better when cooked to at least some extent. And your point about the benefit of animal fats is spot on.” ”Man may not have been born cooking, but once man had the tool he used it extensively. A great many foods are best eaten raw, but some foods absolutely are better when cooked to at least some extent. And your point about the benefit of animal fats is spot on.” ... ... To add to your excellent post, the refrigerator, along with pasteu ...   [retrieve this message]
            • As I believe all humans are genetically equal in biological...   AustinM   4y
               
              As I believe all humans are genetically equal in biological functions(save for male/female differences) then all can thrive on a decent vegetarian diet. The upper castes of India such as the Brahmans and also the Hare Krishnas are predominantly vegetarian and they include dairy products, and honey in their diet. Also strange how some ancient europeans such as Pathagoras himself a vegetarian believed that the ruling elite should only be vegetarians. ... ... Naturally fermented foods such as saurkraut are easy to make and have their own healthy bacteria. Different types of fermented drinks are ...   [retrieve this message]
              • ”I believe all humans are genetically equal in biological f...   grzbear   4y
                 
                ”I believe all humans are genetically equal in biological functions” ”I believe all humans are genetically equal in biological functions” ... ... All you have to do is look around you to know that is not true... ... ... There would be no fat people, or sickly skinny people, bald people, chronically ill or diseased people, no cancer, diabetes, etc. etc. ... ... All of these are a result of changes to individual genetics and biological function. We are not all *equal*. ... ... Feed a native Inuit a vegetarian diet for long and they will develop chronic illness and disease... They are *genetically* DIFFERENT. ...   [retrieve this message]
                • There is excellent evidence that genetics is ”plastic.” In...   InnerCalm   4y
                   
                  There is excellent evidence that genetics is ”plastic.” In other words it responds to our thoughts and our environment and acts as a kind of recording media. ... ... If one believes they need meat then.... ... ... If one grows up conditioned in a society that believes they are dependent on meat then. ... ... ... If one is addicted to meat then.... ... ... Etc. ... ... ... The rest is maneuvering to justify. ... ... ... What I am suggesting is that the mind plays the most important role, not genetics.   [End]
                  • ”There is excellent evidence that genetics is ”plastic.” In...   grzbear   4y
                     
                    ”There is excellent evidence that genetics is ”plastic.” In other words it responds to our thoughts and our environment and acts as a kind of recording media.” ”If one believes they need meat then....” ”If one grows up conditioned in a society that believes they are dependent on meat then.” ”If one is addicted to meat then....” ”The rest is maneuvering to justify.” ”What I am suggesting is that the mind plays the most important role, not genetics.” What I am suggesting is that the mind plays the most important role, not genetics.” ... ... The mind plays a huge roll, however, it can be manipula ...   [retrieve this message]
                  • btw   grzbear   4y
                     
                    Did you watch this segment on 60 minutes? ... ... Designing Life? ... ... http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7076435n&tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel ... ... Made me think of some of our previous discussions. ... ... grz- ... ...   [End]
                • Re: Food for thought...Joe Rollino   AustinM   4y
                   
                  Genetics plays no role in our sickness, fatness, baldness, cancer, diabetes. All sickness depends on cicumstances and diet. If we are human then we can get all human diseases equal as any other human. All diseases have a possiblity of being cured. ... ... All people even Inuit can thrive on a good vegetarian diet, and their diet does also include plant based foods. As a whole, the Inuit have among the shortest lifespans compared to other cultures. Vegetarian diet is only threating if the diet consists of poor food choices such as processed foods. ... ...   [End]
                  • I am always a student with a double major in biological sci...   grzbear   4y
                     
                    I am always a student with a double major in biological sciences and have worked in a genetics lab... for several years. Genetics does play a role. You cannot *spin* that away. ... ... If you have yourself convinced that genetics does not play a role, you perhaps need to unlearn a whole bunch of false ideas\thoughts... if you care to face reality. I know that most people refuse to face *some* realities... even though they may be *enlightened* in other things. ... ... About lifespan... ... ... Environment and the harshness of it, plays a huge role in lifespan... go ahead... live life where you are with ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Video Embedded She Loves Her Job   InnerCalm   4y
     
    Her passion is somewhat surreal. Substitute animals for humans and you have the making of a pretty twisted plot. ... ... ... ... The production value could have been enhanced with some banjo music.   [End]
    • "Substitute animals for humans and you have the making...   AustinM   4y
       
      "Substitute animals for humans and you have the making of a pretty twisted plot." ... ... Thats not a problem, just search for human abortion videos and you will have good selection.  However, banjo music will not be required here. ...   [End]
      • Well the trouble is your comparing apples to Jupiter. ... ...   InnerCalm   4y
         
        Well the trouble is your comparing apples to Jupiter. ... ... A fetus does not have a known life. No self identity. It is a potential life. There is indication that the soul does not interface with the flesh until long after the acceptable time period that most abortions are performed. ... ... An animal though is alive and aware, already born. They are part of families and have an identity. ... ... ... Huge difference. ... ... ...   [End]
        • Ok then go and collect some fetuses and make yourself some ...   AustinM   4y
           
          Ok then go and collect some fetuses and make yourself some soup.   [End]
          • That may be an option for meat eaters. I’ll pass though.   InnerCalm   4y
             
            That may be an option for meat eaters. I’ll pass though.   [End]
          • Nothing like some chicken embryos for breakfast   Dquixote1217   4y
             
            Human fetuses are a bit difficult to obtain and somehow just don’t sound that appetizing.  I think I will stick to chicken and beef with plenty of veggies for my soups that contain meat.  However, within minutes I shall be dining on some chicken embryos.  Let’s see, should I scramble them lightly with some healthy veggies or should I have them medium-boiled with a bit of dill seasoning and a splash of pepper sauce and have the veggies on the side? ...   [End]
            • Actually they are not embryos but rather chicken menstruati...   AustinM   4y
               
              Actually they are not embryos but rather chicken menstruation. An embryo is a living creature and most eggs are unfertilized same as menstruation. Chickens have to have regular menstruation and modern chickens have been bred to menstruate almost daily. So a chicken egg is really female menstruation unless its been fertilized. If that makes eggs any more apetizing .... ... ...   [End]
              • Thats funny,chicken menstruation! And what is chicken menst...   RyanD   4y
                 
                Thats funny,chicken menstruation! And what is chicken menstruation but the flushing of viable ready to be fertilized eggs! Menstruation is a term to describe the process of eliminating these eggs that contain half the chicks future! Methinks the term is used by those who wish to inflict their opinion on others! A scare tactic of sorts to paint a picture of blood and slime! A vegan creation no doubt! ... But it is funny!   [End]
    • Re: She Loves Her Job   Megabite   4y
       
      Total Thread derailment by the two Carnivorous Christian Cult Members. It’s okay to torture and murder Animals for their own enjoyment and they distastefully chose the controlling of woman’s bodies to derail the Thread. ... ... Not cute, and I’m not buying it. ... ... ... ...   [End]
      • Re: She Loves pork.   grassman   4y
         
        Chickens do not menstruate.Animals can not be murdered.Ethical vegans are a joke.100 percent raw ethical vegans are delusional.Funny stuff though.   [End]
      • Re: She Loves Her Job   RyanD   4y
         
        People who compare humans to animals are menstruating chickens! To justify abortion because eggs are on the menu is as neurotic as Freud!   [End]
        • I got News for you, Ryan. We humans are the most Barbaric o...   Megabite   4y
           
          I got News for you, Ryan. We humans are the most Barbaric of Animals. We ARE Animals. We are only higher up on the Food Chain. ... ...   [End]
          • Speak for yourself! Yes I suppose higher aspirations goals ...   RyanD   4y
             
            Speak for yourself! Yes I suppose higher aspirations goals ideals compassion morality empathy sympathy trust humility forgiveness are lacking in many, but I am sure, positive, it is because of this base attitude! ... ... We our only animals, why struggle or strive to be better said Miss Piggy!   [End]
          • You probably won’t grasp the significance of this poem but ...   RyanD   4y
             
            You probably won’t grasp the significance of this poem but I’m going to place it here any way! The attitude that you promote is a far cry from those of the not so distant past and so contrary to the ideals of people like this and many many others of our American culture ! It is a pathetic epitaph modern man has etched for his future stone ,one of ingrained and choreographed human institutionalized destitution of those who would compare the human spirit to those of a pig! What has become of us, what will become of us? ... ... ... ... We never know how high we are ... Till we are asked to rise ... And then ...   [retrieve this message]
            • The only difference between man and the rest of the animal ...   InnerCalm   4y
               
              The only difference between man and the rest of the animal kingdom is the insanity that pours forth from us. We are amplified versions of the animal kingdom with the added benefit of a wider array of emotional and mental nuances (mostly fear and anger based in our current society)but with the unique difference of being able to cause incredible harm to ourselves and the rest of the ecosystem. ... ... We have only proven ourselves to be less stable than all the other animals combined. ... ... Our mark upon this planet cannot be hidden over with poetic whistling in the dark by any author no matter how ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Domestic Animals vs Vegetarian Agriculture   RyanD   4y
     
    As far as sustainable agriculture is concerned livestock is intrinsic to the success of the homesteader and until a few decades ago was considered the normal and wise practice to achieve self sufficiency and independence from out side sources! It’s circle is complete! ... ... ... ... Domestic Animals vs Vegetarian Agriculture ... ... Here’s my take on raising animals. Pardon the esoteric tone but I know of no better way to explain it. ... ... Mankind long ago came to an agreement with the deva or group soul of certain animal species. Let’s take chickens as an example. In the wild, what is presently our domes ...   [retrieve this message]
  • The Dark Side of the China Study Story Supporting Vegetaria...   Dquixote1217   4y
     
    The Dark Side of the China Study Story Supporting Vegetarianism… ... ... by Dr. Mercola ... ... ... I have sought to apply science to improve my health, and that of others, for over forty years. The topic so intrigued me that I went to medical school to increase my understanding of the way the body works. ... ... I have learned many things along this health journey. Clearly one of the major lessons is that there is enormous controversy when it comes to understanding what the human body was designed to thrive on. ... ... Fortunately, as a practicing physician I have had the distinct advantage of havi ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Truth about the effects of veganism is disappearing from th...   recovering   4y
       
      Truth about the effects of veganism is disappearing from the Internet. A few years ago it was easy to find information refuting veganism, but it is much harder to do so now.   [End]
      • What you are really trying to say is that the lies against ...   AustinM   4y
         
        What you are really trying to say is that the lies against veganism and vegetarians is being successfully countered. There are still many anti-vegetarians out there, why continue to fight and spread lies about vegetarianism? My assumption is that meat eaters can not prove the benefits of their diet. The healhiest high animal eaters are problably the purely traditional Eskimo diet which relies mostly on raw fish and raw fats, and their lifespan is nowhere ranked among the highest and healthiest of populations.   [End]
    • Dr Mercola seems to be more of a vitamin pusher than a heal...   AustinM   4y
       
      Dr Mercola seems to be more of a vitamin pusher than a health promoter, though he has done good in reaching out to so many that otherwise would not consider natural health solutions. So far based on what I have read the China Study wins head over heals against the Dr Mercola article.   [End]
      • Re: The Dark Side of the China Study Story Supporting Veget...   Dquixote1217   4y
         
        Once upon a time, Mercola was pretty much anti-supplement.  Now he likes a number of supplements - at least the ones he sells. Like many people in alternative health, Mercola tends to pick and write articles slanted towards his view and advantage,  In the instance of diet, his claim to fame is his stance against grains and glutens as well as his books and articles about eating according to nutritional type.  He does, however, make some very valid observations about the China Study, foremost of which is that it is not an actual study but rather a work based on observation.&nb ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: The Dark Side of the China Study Story Supporting Veget...   herbalnutritionistcmt   4y
       
      unfortunately dr mercola has jumped on the popular bandwagon of eating right for your type which has been debunked many years ago. ... Dr mercola seems to be ignoring basic patholgy, in so much he questions the fact that various diseases are caused by excessive intake of protein. In addition, he is ignoring volumes of material about basic nutrition. This is common with Doctors who become confused and need you to believe in their own version of health. Why do these doctors become confused? its simple... doctors want you to believe that they have the answers and they are trained in health. ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Interesting debut - tell us more.   Dquixote1217   4y
         
        Hmmm, you burst on the scene and in your first post challenge Dr. Mercola (and in your only other one thus far, you appear to question using a Dr. Christopher formula without first doing extensive bowel and liver cleansing).  Do you care to share your background and credentials with us that puts you in an authoratative position to do so?  I take it that the CMT stands for "certified massage therapist".   Nothing wrong with that at all, but I would propose that one needs a bit more than that to credibly take on Mercola or question a proven Christopher formula. ...   [retrieve this message]
        • first of all I did not dismiss a dr c formula in fact I am ...   herbalnutritionistcmt   4y
           
          first of all I did not dismiss a dr c formula in fact I am saying exaztly what he has said and his son says today. If you take blood cleansers without first doing your homework and cleanse the bowels and liver you will get sick. ”The reason {why our patients do not get sick with dr c blood cleansing formulas {sic)} is that we always do bowel and liver cleansing first”david christopher ... ... actually by dr M endorsing eating right for your type and ”debunking” the china study (as the china study’s basic message is that if you eat meat more than 5% meat you will have all modern diseases)He is c ...   [retrieve this message]
          • Thanks for your explanation. Most of us here do not require...   Dquixote1217   4y
             
            Thanks for your explanation. Most of us here do not require any mainstream credentials - but we do like to know a bit about where newcomers are coming from.  You cite some good mentors.  I don’t agree with the China Study and the 5% meat equation - I think the so-called study started off with a pre-conceived conclusion and proceeded to pick and twist things to support the conclusion.  Neither do I always agree with Dr, Mercola, though I do more often than not and I certainly respect his many contributions to alternative health.  You are right, there are many different w ...   [retrieve this message]
            • the real problem is that ”scientific evidence” of today is...   herbalnutritionistcmt   4y
               
              the real problem is that ”scientific evidence” of today is based upon double blind studys. Outside of this method most ”educated” individuals do not venture. This is the only source of truth.. ... Well I disagree, all double blind studys, have problems with them and I argue because the studys are in a controlled enviroment and science is ” the study of nature in is original enviroment” then double blind studys are not real science.Double blind studys are used to prove any given point depending on who is doing the funding of the experiments otherwise the university will not receive fundin ...   [retrieve this message]
              • http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/enzymes.htm...   #132635   4y
                 
                http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/enzymes.htmRaw ... ... Excerpt :- ... ... foods and digestive enzymes ... ... Let’s get back to enzymes. Raw foods are rich in enzymes. Enzymes are needed for the digestive system to work. They are necessary to break down food particles so they can be utilized for energy. The human body makes approximately 22 different digestive enzymes which are capable of digesting carbohydrates, protein and fats. Raw vegetables and raw fruit are rich sources of enzymes. ... ... While all raw foods contain enzymes, the most powerful enzyme-rich food is sprouted seeds, gr ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Vegetarianism is Unnatural   Cappy   4y
     
    These two points are irrefutable: ... ... 1) We have canine teeth. Humans are designed to eat meat or we would not have canine teeth. If we were supposed to be herbivores we would have broad, flat teeth for grinding like an equine (horse) or other herbivore. ... ... 2) Look at anatomical plates and do some comparative anatomy. Humans have the GI tract of an omnivore, not an herbivore or carnivore. ... ... BOTTOM LINE: Humans are DESIGNED to ingest (teeth) and digest (GI tract) animal flesh. ... ... If someone ”gets sick” when they eat meat, most likely they are HCl (hydrochloric acid) defiecient or la ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Both facts you present are totally refutable: ... ... The ...   AustinM   4y
       
      Both facts you present are totally refutable: ... ... The ”canine” teeth in humans are in name only because they resemble canine teeth but they do not share the same tearing ability sharpness and power as our canine friends. You will find it is quite difficult to chew into a raw animal. In nature animals such as our canine friends do not cook their food. ... ... Its been proven that the human digestive system most closely resembles that of fruit eating animals. A long intestine will absorb more juice of the quickly moving fruits. Meats raw or cooked do not move as quicky in a long digestive tr ...   [retrieve this message]
      • By definition and by history eating meat is NOT unnatural   Dquixote1217   4y
         
        And so it is shown that meat eating is unatural for humans, it goes against our natural human design. ... ... By definition, what is natural is what is found in nature.  Humans have been eating meat for all the thousands of years since they first put their footsteps down in the sands of times.  In fact, until the fad of vegetarianism came along in the last couple of centuries, humans have never failed to eat meat except when it was not available.  There is your "natural" for you. ...   [End]
    • Re: Vegetarianism is Unnatural   herbalnutritionistcmt   4y
       
      Very intresting argument although there are several flaws as the author is trying to prove that humans are carnivors. ... first point the few incisors that humans have cannot rip flesh apart and I challenge the author to do so and post it on youtube and bite the ass of a cow and see what flesh he can rip up. I would love to see any so called human omnivores do just that. Therefore the arguement that humans have teeth like other carnivores is invalid. Humans do not have teeth like carnivores humans have mostly molars (one can count many more molars than incisors) so just by counting teeth ...   [retrieve this message]
      • People have eaten meat for millions of years. ... People st...   ALB   3y
         
        People have eaten meat for millions of years. ... People still eat meat and live to 100 years or more eating meat. ... When start seeing vegetarians live to be 150 might think of becoming one. ... ... The argument here is that people are omnivores not carnivores and not herbivores but omnivores. ... Our teeth have no problem chewing up cooked meat and we can especially, if the meat is cut into small pieces eat it raw meat pretty well. I know a few people that like their steak blue rare. Men also know how to use tools, fire. Fire and cooking helps us cook and eat many types of foods that are not very ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Meat-lovers may pack on the pounds   chrisb1   4y  C
     
    Being a little less carnivorous may help you stay slim, a study of hundreds of thousands of Europeans suggests. ... ... Dr. Anne-Claire Vergnaud of Imperial College London in the UK and her colleagues found that people who ate more meat gained more weight over 5 years than those who ate less meat, but the same amount of calories. ... ... ”Our results suggest that a decrease in meat consumption may improve weight management,” they wrote in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. ... ... The study included more than 100,000 men and 270,000 women from 10 different European countries participating in a s ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Especially if they are unhealthy people who eat unhealthy m...   Dquixote1217   4y
       
      Heavy meat-eating could be part of an overall unhealthy diet or unhealthy lifestyle ... ... Yes, and therein likely lies the key. As we pointed out before, comparsions mean little if the meat eating group has people who live an unhealthy lifestyle and eat unhealthy processed meats and meats from animals subject to growth hormones and antibiotics.  As a whole, people who eat less meat tend to be more health conscious and active. ... ... I hate to see these studies that don’t take into account the types of meat eaten and the overall lifestyles of the meat-eating group, and end up ...   [retrieve this message]
      • I still feel it depends on your bodytype. I have tried the ...   hanna   4y
         
        I still feel it depends on your bodytype. I have tried the vegetarian way and I gained weight and felt sluggish. ... So I could say grains, fruit etc made me gain weight. ... If I eat low/no carbs I loose weight and have more energy. ... Several years ago I read that about 1/3 of the people do better on high protein and low carbs. ... Of course I agree that you need to eat the right ”healthy” food.   [End]
        • Of course it can vary by individual.  On the other han...   Dquixote1217   4y
           
          Of course it can vary by individual.  On the other hand, virtually no one should eat NO carbs! At least some healthy carbs are essential for good health, especially over the long term.  A lot of people who bought heavily into the no-carbs diet as publicized by the Atkins group will find problems down the road, the same as will a lot of people who have bought into the idea of eating only vegetables without carefully managing their diets will ultimately find problems due to long term nutritional deficiencies.  ... ... It is all about balance and the kinds and quality of food ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Meat-lovers may pack on the pounds   RyanD   4y
       
      Another junk study! I could make a study proving vegetarians are unhealthy using vegetarians who lived off of junk food and soda pop! ... Again another questionable study by a very questionable source for very questionable reasons!   [End]
      • I thought this post might cause a bit of a stir!!! ... ......   chrisb1   4y
         
        I thought this post might cause a bit of a stir!!! ... ... This ”junk study” is not really junk at all, and I quote........................ ... ... ”However, the researchers did attempt to take overall dietary pattern into account, as well as education, physical activity level, whether or not people smoked, and their total calorie intake”. ... ... AND........... ... ”When the researchers looked at different types of meat separately, they found the strongest association with weight gain for poultry, followed by processed meats and red meat”. ... ... So I would say a fairly objective analysis. ... ... Dr Ralph Cinques ...   [retrieve this message]
        • ”I thought this post might cause a bit of a stir!!!” ... ....   RyanD   4y
           
          ”I thought this post might cause a bit of a stir!!!” ... ... I thought you said you didn’t have an agenda chrisb1 ? It seems to me you regularly attempt to promote your ideals, unless its yourself you are trying so hard to convince ! ... You can take all your studies and write a book crisb1 but I wouldnt pay a plug nickle for it because I know personally they are wrong faulty and financially motivated! ... But I myself will be considerate and wont waste my time trying to convince you of my meat eating agenda!   [End]
          • RyanD, ... I am not really promoting or endorsing anything ...   chrisb1   4y
             
            RyanD, ... I am not really promoting or endorsing anything except Vitamin D3 supplementation, Water-only-fasting, and Natural Hygiene, for the purposes of better health and the prevention of disease. ... ... The study made on meat consumption was conducted by Dr. Anne-Claire Vergnaud of Imperial College London in the UK and her colleagues, and where I was merely the messenger of that study. ... It may have been wrong and/or faulty but ”financially motivated” is misleading and erroneous. I would also ask: to what end? ... ... Did I ever mention that I do not have an agenda? ... I don’t think so; well, not in ...   [retrieve this message]
            • promotion of vitamin d supplements is an obvious agenda, wi...   johng   4y
               
              promotion of vitamin d supplements is an obvious agenda, with long term negative health consequences as I show with peer reviewed studies repeatedly. immunomodulory or immunusuppressive... all the same if you really understand the immune system...   [End]
            • Any one can find a study to say anything they want chrisb1,...   RyanD   4y
               
              Any one can find a study to say anything they want chrisb1, there are studies showing how bad vegetables are how bad herbs are, all kinds of negative studies put out to promote peoples view points so why not take the high ground and stick with the positive studies about your beliefs and stop bashing what other people believe in. It doesn’t suit you.   [End]
              • That depends what you actually mean by the word ”promoting”...   chrisb1   4y
                 
                That depends what you actually mean by the word ”promoting” John. ... ... If you had observed and read the information that I have posted on the subject of Vitamin D3, you will find that all I have done is ”report” on the actual findings of Research Scientists concerning the supplementation of this Vitamin, and have not ”forced” those findings onto anyone else: unless readers are unable to arrive at their own conclusions and accept these on face value. My experience within curezone is that the majority are not that gullible. ... I am also not the ”pied piper”. ... ... In addition John, your beliefs and ...   [retrieve this message]
                • I never met a vegetarian or vegan who didn’t have an agenda...   RyanD   4y
                   
                  I never met a vegetarian or vegan who didn’t have an agenda! Maybe its the lack of animal based omega 3s that distort your objectivity! Good luck with you nutrient deficient diet the makers of supplements need your cash!   [End]
                  • I never met a vegetarian or vegan who didn’t have an agenda...   InCharge   4y
                     
                    I never met a vegetarian or vegan who didn’t have an agenda! ... ... I happen to be a vegetarian because it suits me, and I don’t give a rats azz what you or anybody else eats. ... ... Studies while maybe informative never take the whole picture into consideration. They tend to be like statistics. You can focus on any aspect of the study to get what statistic you want while disregarding everything else that may alter the outcome. ... ... This study was about meat eaters gaining more weight, but they didn’t mention the way the meat was prepared, or the food that is eaten with it. When is the last time ...   [retrieve this message]
                  • Vegetarians at the strength you want happiness of mankind. ...   Maniek   4y
                     
                    Vegetarians at the strength you want happiness of mankind. Normally sect .....:) ... http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1541511#i   [End]
                  • RyanD, ... Your comment.......... ... ”I never met a vegeta...   chrisb1   4y
                     
                    RyanD, ... Your comment.......... ... ”I never met a vegetarian or vegan who didn’t have an agenda!” ... ... Well you have now. There is always a first time for everything I suppose. ... ... ”Omega 3 deficient diet”!! ... ... Hardly. I take Flax-seed oil and Hemp-seed oil both rich in omega 3’s......... ... http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/flaxoil.htm ... ... You may find it of interest that Dr Johanna Budwig only used flax-seed oil in combination with a sulphurated protein, (rather than fish oils), as the best combination in her successful anti-cancer protocol. ... ... Seems to me though, you have an anti-vegetarian/ ...   [retrieve this message]
                    • You seem insecure in your choices ,if not you wouldn’t feel...   RyanD   4y
                       
                      You seem insecure in your choices ,if not you wouldn’t feel the need to bash others to prop yourself up! Animal based Omega 3s chrisb1 you cant duplicate them from some weed!   [End]
                      • RyanD, ... your comments are becoming more and more puerile...   chrisb1   4y
                         
                        RyanD, ... your comments are becoming more and more puerile and not worthy of further discussion, so I shall not waste my time further, except to comment on this statement of your own............. ... ... ”You seem insecure in your choices ,if not you wouldn’t feel the need to bash others to prop yourself up! Animal based Omega 3s chrisb1 you cant duplicate them from some weed”! ... ... Your first sentence is both ridiculous and nonsensical, but the the latter.......... ... ... Where do you suppose animals such as cattle, which are herbivores, receive their omega 3’s?...........from the plant-kingdom of cou ...   [retrieve this message]
                    • And if that linseed oil is alpha-linolenic acid (n-3). I ho...   Maniek   4y
                       
                      And if that linseed oil is alpha-linolenic acid (n-3). I hope that is not purchased low-linolenic lol The predominance of O6 ... ... Servus Mariusz ;)   [End]
                • most of the studies you post are correlational studies, bas...   johng   4y
                   
                  most of the studies you post are correlational studies, basically worthless to anyone who knows how to read them.   [End]
                  • Haven’t we had this discussion again and again already?&nbs...   Dquixote1217   4y
                     
                    Haven’t we had this discussion again and again already? Vitamin D3, Trevor Marshall, Amy Proal, the Marshall agenda and protocol . . . . ...   [End]
                    • you fogot the dozens of pubmed studies I posted... not done...   johng   4y
                       
                      you fogot the dozens of pubmed studies I posted... not done by Trevor Marshall. And about Marshall, clearly his protocol is not very enlightened... but I give him credit for catching the vit d scam... ... ... ”1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 [1,25-(OH)2-D3] is known to be an immunosuppressive hormone. This review primarily deals with in vitro and in vivo effects of 1,25-(OH)2-D3 and analogue, 1,25-dihydroxy-16ene-vitamin D3 [1,25-(OH)2-16ene-D3], on T helper subsets type 1 (Th1) or type 2 (Th2) that have distinctive functional characteristics in humans. Th1 secrete interferon (IFN-), interleukin (IL- ...   [retrieve this message]
                      • As I said, we have had this discussion before.  The so...   Dquixote1217   4y
                         
                        As I said, we have had this discussion before.  The so-called vitamin D scam that Marshall heavily publicizes just happens to be essential to the promotion of his protocol and his financial interests. ... ... It is misleading to call Vitamin D3 immuno-suppressive when it is actually immuno-modulatory.  Vitamin D3 is a natural substance and the vast majority of studies indicate that supplementation can be beneficial for the vast majority of people.  Studies also indicate that the majority of people are deficient in Vitamin D3.  They also indicate that the very ...   [retrieve this message]
                      • John, ... the conclusion of the study you have just posted ...   chrisb1   4y
                         
                        John, ... the conclusion of the study you have just posted states............. ... ”These actions of the vitamin D3 compounds suggest that it may have potential therapeutic applications in Th1-mediated clinical situations such as autoimmunity and transplantation”. ... ... What I would dearly like to know is why you have such a basic lack of understanding in interpreting these conclusions. ... D3 IS Immunosuppressive, but only in the CONTEXT of preventing the body from OVER-REACTING as in Autoimmune diseases and transplantation. ... The words used are ”THERAPEUTIC APPLICATIONS” of D3. ... ... In other words, D3 ...   [retrieve this message]
                        • when big pharma starts talking about ”theraputic benefits” ...   johng   4y
                           
                          when big pharma starts talking about ”theraputic benefits” smart people run as fast as they can.   [End]
                          • John, ... so you will post the link to a study that support...   chrisb1   4y
                             
                            John, ... so you will post the link to a study that supports or seems to support your argument, and then in the next breath denounce it by stating........................ ... ... ”when big pharma starts talking about ”therapeutic benefits” smart people run as fast as they can”. ... ... John, you can’t have your cake and eat it as well. Either you support its conclusions or you do not. ... Nit-picking, and twisting the conclusions of the study to suit your argument invalidates your argument for that reason. ... ... Chrisb1.   [End]
                            • that is exactly my point. glad you finally caught it.   johng   4y
                               
                              that is exactly my point. glad you finally caught it.   [End]
                              • John, ... and my point is that your own point doesn’t make ...   chrisb1   4y
                                 
                                John, ... and my point is that your own point doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. ... ... Let’s try and clarify this: do you actually mean immunosuppressive to the point where the Immune system is operating optimally? or Immunosuppressive to the point of being ”totally Immunosuppressive”, and leaving the body with no Immune system whatsoever? ... ... If it is the former then I agree with you, but if the latter, then I’m afraid you are very much mistaken. ... ... Chrisb1.   [End]
              • why not take the high ground and stick with the positive st...   Dquixote1217   4y
                 
                why not take the high ground and stick with the positive studies about your beliefs and stop bashing what other people believe in. It doesn’t suit you. ... ... That is good advice for all of us to take, including those who are bashing Chris, who I consider to be one of the better members of this website.  I may not always completely agree with Chris, but I certainly appreciate all of the great information and advice he has posted regarding fasting, Vitamin D3 and yes, the value of consuming plenty of healthy vegetables.  I happen to know Chris rather well, and I can tell you right no ...   [retrieve this message]
                • Yes your little clan of friends is well known DQ but if chr...   RyanD   4y
                   
                  Yes your little clan of friends is well known DQ but if chrisb1 cant take the heat he shouldn’t go around bashing others.He’s a big boy!   [End]
                  • RyanD, ... your sarcasm and belittlement of both DQ and I i...   chrisb1   4y
                     
                    RyanD, ... your sarcasm and belittlement of both DQ and I is unwarranted, and reveals a lack of maturity in discussing/debating this subject. ... Your use of the words ”bashing others” is indicative of this. ... It seems you also are unable to make the intellectual distinction between ”bashing others” and ”the reporting of a contemporary study”. ... ... ”Yes your little clan of friends is well known DQ but if chrisb1 cant take the heat he shouldn’t go around bashing others.He’s a big boy”! ... ... I am able to hold my own in any argument/discussion, but very much welcome DQ’s & InCharge’s intervention, as ...   [retrieve this message]
                  • If one backtracks up this thread, the ones who&nb...   Dquixote1217   4y
                     
                    If one backtracks up this thread, the ones who started the bashing here is quite clear - and it wasn’t Chris.  Whether friends or not, bashing is uncalled for and is usually the last resort of someone who lacks the knowledge or ability to defend their position civilly and logically. ... ... What is wrong with the idea of having a discussion where people state their views and post supporting information in just a couple of posts or so without arguing ad infinitum and degenerating into baiting and bashing?  At the end of the day, those who do so and hold themselves above ...   [retrieve this message]
    • The real health problems with meat   Dquixote1217   4y
       
      As you know, I think that consumption of at least some meats is healthy and natural.  However, there are problems with meat besides the ones attributed in the popular studies that people quote (studies which we have established include unhealthy people and unhealthy processed meats, and hormone and antibiotic laced meats) as well as the moral problems from the inhumane practices in the meat industry.  Foremost of those problems are toxins, which tend to accumulate in animal fats.  Two of the most dangerous and most prevalent ones are dioxins and glyp ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Meat-lovers may pack on the pounds   bellaismad   4y
       
      and vegetarianism/veganism looks like it can make you anorexic looking or emaciated over time ... ... ... i do eat meat...not excessively...but im at a healthy weight. maybe its b/c those overweight are eating the fried, greasy, hormone laden take out?   [End]
  • Nutrition Facts on Vegetable Products   tomato   4y
     
    http://www.food-stats.com/Vegetables_and_Vegetable_Products/   [End]
  • Salsify, highly nutritious root vegetable   tomato   4y
     
    Salsify (tragopogon porrifolius) is a vegetable whose root and leaves can be used for cooking purposes. It is also known as white salsify, goatsbeard, vegetable oyster, and the oyster plant. The latter two names reflect the root’s taste, which when cooked, resembles an oyster. Salsify is a member of the sunflower family and its varieties are named French Blue Flowered and the Mammoth Sandwich Island. It is cultivated in Central and Southern Europe, the United States, and in Asia (Taiwan), and is said to have originated in the Mediterranean. Its root is similar in appearance to a thin parsn ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Soy milk the vegetarian alternative to milk?   quincyjonesfan1   5y
     
    Is it?   [End]
  • facts about vegetarianism   #69242   5y
     
    http://www.funimky.com/downloads/FACTS%20ABOUT%20VEGETARIANISM.pdf ... ... FACTS ABOUT VEGETARIANISM ... ... ... by Ronald L. Myers, CNC ... ...   ... ... As you are aware, reams of information have been written about this subject. There are ... ... arguments pro and con regarding a vegetarian lifestyle. In this issue I am not presenting an ... ... argument regarding vegetarianism, I prefer to present facts. They are what they are and can be ... ... demonstrated. Being presented with the facts we can then choose to accept or reject them. ... ...   ... ... In dealing with vegetarians across my career, I have classified th ...   [retrieve this message]
    • First of all, it isn’t clear whether by vegetarian they act...   MrCuddly   5y
       
      First of all, it isn’t clear whether by vegetarian they actually mean vegan. They repeat that this or that isn’t available in plant based products and only animal products. It seems to assume vegetarians don’t eat dairy which probably is a false assumption for most vegetarians. ... ... Secondly with the deteriorating quality of farmed meat with the increased hormones, antibiotics and other toxic chemicals, the health proposition of being a meat eater for the vast majority that don’t eat naturally raised livestock has changed dramatically vis a vis vegetarians. ... ... I’ve been able to drop 5 meds ...   [retrieve this message]
    • These are not facts about vegetarians   #27515   5y
       
      These ”facts” are about vegans. The author needs to be much more clear about that. His arguments simply do not apply to the majority of vegetarians out there. ... ... ”In this issue I am not presenting an ... argument regarding vegetarianism, I prefer to present facts. They are what they are and can be ... demonstrated. Being presented with the facts we can then choose to accept or reject them.” ... ... These are not ”facts”, they are your opinions. ... You write this whole article as if you are highly opposed to vegetarianism, and that all vegetarians should begin eating meat. But most of the points are ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Why Vegetarianism is Wrong   OmniV   5y
     
    Vegetarianism is morally wrong. I want to set aside the ‘usual’ arguments for/against vegetarianism. This will not cover health, environmental impact, animal intelligence or self-awareness. These points do not effect where the bigger moral quandary lies. ... ... Let us explore the possibility that a difference can be made. Vegetarians who do not eat meat say that demand can be decreased, and thus can production. This results in lower loss of animal life. ... ... Before fewer cattle are slaughtered, it is likely that the mortality rate would increase instead. Farmers who do not have the revenue to ...   [retrieve this message]
    • actually, i think the only truly moral thing to do is for a...   icky   5y
       
      actually, i think the only truly moral thing to do is for all humans to resort to cannibalism. by doing so, we can save all the little furry creatures and all of the sensitive vegatables and plants. it would cut down on the global human carbon footprint and would solve overpopulation.   [End]
    • This is why vegetarianism, although I consider it healthier...   VeryGnawty   5y
       
      This is why vegetarianism, although I consider it healthier than omnivorism, is not a solution to save animals. Less demand for animals means less domestication. Less domestication means less population. Consider for example the number of domesticated cats versus the number of feral cats that were born in the wild. The populations of wild cats in many areas are not too good. ... ... Vegetarianism is a very poor excuse to save animals. A better way to save animals is to educate people about ecosystems and develop habitat for animals. An omnivore who did this would be helping animals more t ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Re: Why Vegetarianism is Wrong - Edit   #69242   5y
         
        I don’t see any logic in anything you just posted. ... ... ”Less demand for animals means less domestication. Less domestication means less population”. ... ... Yeah, but what you forgot is that for the most part you are talking about chickens and cattle, two species that don’t really survive on their own, or contribute to any ecosystems. ... ... ” Consider for example the number of domesticated cats versus the number of feral cats that were born in the wild. The populations of wild cats in many areas are not too good.” ... ... What does that have anything to do with what we are talking about? Feral cats are ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Re: Why Vegetarianism is Right   didget123   5y
         
        ... ... Vegetarianism is the right way forward. I am not telling you to become one, as for many of us we put our desires first,before asking ourselves what is right and wrong. i am only asking you to make the decision for yourself: ... ... Is breeding animals for their body meat, keeping them shut in a dark barn from the second they are born, never to step outside wrong??? ... And what about stealing caring mothers babies and sending them off to be gassed, or ... chopped. The fate of all darie cows would be to have their throat slit , the same as any beef bred cow.Every hamburger starts with an animal be ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Why Vegetarianism is Wrong   #115014   5y
       
      stfu! thats rubbish   [End]
      • Why Vegetarianism is morally right   MrCuddly   5y
         
        Your argument for ecosystems is exactly why vegetarianism is morally right. ... ... Factory livestock farms aren’t just cruel to animals when they’re slaughtered, but for their entire lives. Imagine if your entire life was confined to small bedroom with 30 other people stuffed in with you. ... ... You’d go your entire life without ever spreading your arms full length, and be force fed food that only fattens you with nearly zero nutrition plus massive amounts of antibiotics to keep diseases from killing you all off prematurely. Because of your added hormones and force fed diet your intestines may e ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Why Vegetarianism is Wrong   theothevegan   5y
       
      ok this is my first time on this website but i had to register to show you the errors in your post: ... ... ”Vegetarians who do not eat meat say that demand can be decreased, and thus can production. This results in lower loss of animal life. Before fewer cattle are slaughtered, it is likely that the mortality rate would increase instead. Farmers who do not have the revenue to support their livestock will slaughter what they cannot continue to support. Even repurposing a percentage of livestock to production of methane or dairy would not compensate for the loss. With this fresh slaughter, suppl ...   [retrieve this message]
  • "david[wolfe]is in poor physical condition,but has invested...   IWILLDIE   5y
     
    RAW WAR: ... http://flexrx.nourished.com.au/2008/08/06/the-primal-diet/#comment-111   [End]
  • friendly reminder to all wannabe veggies or raw foodists...   ZenGaz   5y
     
    that doctor on here andmor, who preaces about how meat= cancer with guilt trips and ”figures”, well i will post my earlier response to him here and hopefully some of you who are thinking of these diet can cast a broader net and not rely on other people to dictate your own reality, you may do well vegan, i did not, think there was other factors? if i said i tried it all and went down every alley with strenght and courage, did fasting whatever ancient cures elimination sprouts, i would not be exaggerating... ... anyway maybe vegan or raw will work for you, but be careful being told that detox t ...   [retrieve this message]
    • it seems as though you are a bit angry about things of life...   grassman   5y
       
      it seems as though you are a bit angry about things of life.Using choice animal products is ok,there are no raw or vegan food police.taking offense over other peoples dietary positions is not very zen like.may you be blessed with vibrant health and ease of thought”peace”.   [End]
      • if you had read what i was responding to, you would not nee...   ZenGaz   5y
         
        if you had read what i was responding to, you would not need to conjure such replies, the man is a scaremongerer and i weep for all those who walk his path and get worse. being zen does not stop my responsibility to enlighten others who may be under the trance of these new wave nutritionists telling us all a version of reality.   [End]
        • Reality is as it is and most people have the ability to thi...   grassman   5y
           
          Reality is as it is and most people have the ability to think freely.Sounds like you have difficulty with that and was easily swayed by your own thoughts.Still sounds like you have an issue with an individual not a dietary chose of life.The only person that can scare you is whom you allow to.   [End]
  • Copper-Zinc Imbalance: Unrecognized Consequence of Plant-B...   warthog   6y
     
    ... http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/copper-zinc-imbalance.html ... ... ... Copper-Zinc Imbalance: ... Unrecognized Consequence of Plant-Based Diets and a Contributor to Chronic Fatigue ... ... By Laurie Warner, MA, CNC ... ... A commonly reported consequence of vegetarian or vegan diets, or even diets that rely too heavily on plant foods, is chronic fatigue. Many sufferers subsequently embrace the principles enumerated by Weston Price, adopting a diet containing more nutrient-dense animal foods and fat; however, the fatigue often persists, even after considerable time on the new diet. ... ... While Ameri ...   [retrieve this message]
    • After reading this article   snozberry   6y
       
      I learned some things I didn’t know. I relate to the author. I was once in her shoes. ... ... I was very desperate and also a vegetarian. However, I felt very deeply in my heart to remain a vegetarian despite some of the outright hostility I have seen towards the vegetarian diet (not from this author but from other groups such as Weston Price, applied kinesiology, eat right for your type, naturopaths, ect.) ... I have resolved my health challenges, and remained true to the vegetarian diet. I only did this because my heart told me to do this. Other people’s hearts may say something different. ...   [retrieve this message]
      • I was posting this for information, not really to debate......   warthog   6y
         
        I was posting this for information, not really to debate...hopefully if there are vegetarians suffering from too much copper, they will find a way to correct that. ... ... I don’t begrudge people their choice in diet. I would go further, though, and state that what people do to their children is their business, not mine - as much as it would pain me to stick by that at times. If a couple wants to abuse their child through veganism, I don’t want the state to get involved. As a neighbor, I might speak my mind to the couple, but that’s social pressure and the desire to educate. I don’t want to ...   [retrieve this message]
        • I’m not really in favor of veganism either as there has nev...   snozberry   6y
           
          I’m not really in favor of veganism either as there has never been a vegan civilization on this planet. ... ... I also agree that animals are highly important to integrate with the land. Even the vegetarian societies such as India highly utilize cow’s for their milk and their dung. The Essenes also utilized cows. Many middle-eastern cultures utilized kefir to a high extent, and I believe that is one of the reasons many Indian vegetarians were able to thrive. A couple cups of kefir can supply more than the daily allotment of protein, minerals, probiotics, etc. One of the reasons many Indian ...   [retrieve this message]
          • It’s so sad we let ourselves be overrun by unknowledgeable ...   warthog   6y
             
            It’s so sad we let ourselves be overrun by unknowledgeable people in large corporations selling silly products, instead of building and retaining good local knowledge. ... ... ”I think the more important issues than vegetarians vs. omnivores are GMOs, soil mineral depletion, and EMFs. Our very survival as a human race may be at stake, and that is not an understatement.” ... ... Those are all definitely the big issues on my mind. It’s getting harder and harder to socialize via the normal restaurant route, the more I learn. I hardly go to restaurants now...and with GMO and weird cloned meat creeping ...   [retrieve this message]
            • I’m a big fan of the Weston A. Price Foundation and have re...   alamode   6y
               
              I’m a big fan of the Weston A. Price Foundation and have read through every article on the site. ... ... I just want to point out some quotes from the site that show being a vegetarian or vegan still involves the death of many many animals in order for the vegetarian or vegan to eat, so I don’t understand ”following your heart”? ... ... ”The farmer would point out to the vegan that even she has a ’serious clash of interests’ with other animals. The grain that the vegan eats is harvested with a combine that shreds field mice, while the farmer’s tractor wheel crushes woodchucks in their burrows and h ...   [retrieve this message]
              • No doubt the modern world makes issues complicated and comp...   Snozberry   6y
                 
                No doubt the modern world makes issues complicated and complex. ... ... The Weston Price organization is not the end all and be all on this debate. As I said above, there are traditional cultures that have thrived on vegetarian diets for thousands of years. There are many counter-arguments to the Weston Price arguments. Two of the most extensive nutritional studies performed on California 7th day Adventists and the China Study confer the benefits of being a vegetarian. ... ... I don’t know where you got your info on cows only producing milk for one year-- that is incorrect. Cows commonly produce ...   [retrieve this message]
                • I agree with you on the heart aspects of vegetarian eating....   Larryb   6y
                   
                  I agree with you on the heart aspects of vegetarian eating. I turned lacto-vegetarian several years ago to mitigate a number of health problems I was having because of the typical American diet. I was able to get rid of 5 medications because of it that were making me feel absolutely horrible. ... ... But in the process, I really came to appreciate the ”heart” aspect as well. Not having to live off the squalid living conditions of farmed animals and their eventual slaughter 3 times a day makes me feel fabulous, and I only wish I made the switch a long time ago. And it’s a win-win since my he ...   [retrieve this message]
      • This is an interesting response,and adds ideas for further ...   Sagitta   4y
         
        This is an interesting response,and adds ideas for further research. I like the idea of listening to your heart, and I might also add that it is a good idea to introduce changes slowly and look to your body response for feedback. I did not know that a leaky gut was linked to food allergies. It makes perfect sense. Thank you for posting this snozberry!   [End]
    • Re: Copper-Zinc Imbalance: Unrecognized Consequence of Pla...   Sagitta   4y
       
      Thank you for taking the time to post this information. I have gained much by reading it and will do further research. I have read one book based on the Weston Price Recommendations and started presoaking my whole grain rice ever since. I am still bewildered about the type of fats to use though. I have used very low fats, mainly walnut oil and whatever traces are left after trimming meat and had good cholesterol reduction,recently I stated using chicken with the skin on, because very low fat food does not satisfy my hunger, as soon as I added skin on chicken to my diet the cholesterol sh ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Excellent article, very informative, although I disagree wi...   #5043   3y
         
        Excellent article, very informative, although I disagree with this one statement: ... ... ”The cognitive deficits of chronic fatigue patients are often characterized as ”brain fog,”49 and investigators have found a general slowing down of brain functions.50 For patients to complain of rushing, frantic thought processes is an anomaly that can complicate the diagnosis of chronic fatigue, unless its role as a tipoff of possible high copper is recognized.” ... ... Brain fog in CFS patients like myself are due in fact to the racing, overstimulated amygdala, which makes concentration difficult, if not som ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Why Are Animal Flesh (Meat) and Fish Flesh Addictive? The U...   frugivore   7y
     
    Why Are Animal Flesh (Meat) and Fish Flesh Addictive? The Uric Acid ... Or Pre-Urine in Muscle Cells is Trioxypurine, More ... Addictive Than Caffein Which is Dioxypurine. ... ... Had the animal bird or fish not been killed, his kidneys would have excreted ... the oxypurines. ... ... Oxypurines cause gout, arthritis, unnatural heart stimulation leading to ... heart disease, heart attack, stroke. Uric acid crystallizes around the joints ... in crystalline needle formations which jab the nerves. They cause rigidity, inflexibility. Eventually oxypurines ... are the cause of kidney dysfunction ... leading to dialysis, as we ...   [retrieve this message]
  • Death by Veganism   LCD   7y  C
     
    May 21, 2007 ... ... Death by Veganism ... By NINA PLANCK ... ... ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html ... ... ... WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed 3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty. ... ... This particular calamity — at least the third such conviction of vegan parents in four years — may be largely due to ignorance. But it should prompt frank discussion about nutrition. ... ... I was once a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I conc ...   [retrieve this message]
    • Re: Death by STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   grassman   7y
       
      Be wise be green be healthy!Starvation is unhealthy now thats saying something!   [End]
    • Nina should be held liable, this is an outrage.   theflava   7y
       
      John McDougall, MD - Letter to the Editor - NY Times ... The New York Times today (May 21, 2007) carried an Op-Ed piece about the dangers of a vegan diet, titled “Death by Veganism,” that deserves an immediate response: ... ... For the original article see: ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?_r=1&oref=slogin ... ... ... This article, written by Nina Planck, who is identified as a food writer and expert on farmers markets and local food, stems from the case of a recent murder conviction of parents who starved their 6 week old child to death by feeding him a diet of apple juice and ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Re: J Mac Dougle should be held liable, this is an outrage.   2Sirius   6y
         
        Nina should be held responsible? hah! What a bunch of crud! Fact is this baby died because of lack of nutrition and those supporting this apple juice soy milk diet should be held accountable for promoting this pitiful act of negligence! Soy first of all is a toxin high in phyto estrogens and high in nutrient uptake blockers! This toxic product promoted by the likes of Monsanto is not food at all and only the feeble minded obsessive vegan would consider this plastic like product edible! ... ... ... ... http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html ... ...   [End]
        • Basic Common Sense   traderdrew   6y
           
          Vegans as well as everyone else need to use basic common sense. First of all, the parents should have tried living off that apple juice and soy based diet before they fed it to their baby. Second of all, I have never heard of anyone picking soybeans off plants and eating them in a raw form. If you can’t pick it off a tree, then why would you eat it? There are many toxic and suspicious ingedients in grocery store foods today.   [End]
    • Re: Death by Veganism   vmtz2001   6y
       
      Regardless of one’s position on veganism or vegetarianism, the fact that the baby died is not in and of itself proof of the failure of veganism. It just shows how necessary breast feeding is to babies, which is something that vegetarians in particular emphasize.   [End]
    • Plant sources are no longer regarded as secondary because i...   vmtz2001   6y
       
      Plant sources are no longer regarded as secondary because it’s denigrating to vegetarians. I think that’s rather subjective. Rather they are more highly regarded as it becomes clear that plant sources of protein are more readily assimilated. What meat has is a broader base of amino acids in larger quantities. We don’t have the stomach acids that carnivores have, nor the fangs, and our jaws do not move like carnivores. From what I can conclude, we evolved to where we are adapted to eat meat, perhaps even need it to some extent, but we adapted rather imperfectly. We certainly never ate as mu ...   [retrieve this message]
    • There are many misinformed people in this world. Will Rodge...   #95737   6y
       
      There are many misinformed people in this world. Will Rodgers once said ...be careful what you read in a health magazine, you might die from a misprint! America as a whole is becoming sick from what they eat. Diabetes,obesity, heart disease, strokes, ADD,ADDH, along with other mental problems. Mostly caused by deficiencies in the diet. To single out vegans is kind of ridiculous. Omega 3 is converted into DHA by the body. Flax seed oil is rich in omega 3 along with many other vegan sources. A diet with a lot of red meat can put you in the grave much faster then a vegan diet. For instance ...   [retrieve this message]
      • Most of us get too much undigested protein which can cause ...   traderdrew   6y
         
        Most of us get too much undigested protein which can cause renal failure. ... ... I think I know a lot but there are some things that I don’t know about.  I have never heard about undigested protein.  I have heard about complex proteins that are found in meats.  Please explain what undigested protein is?  You seem to be knowledgeable and that is why I am asking you. ...   [End]
    • This is absurd. There are millions of people all over the w...   goatspasm   6y
       
      This is absurd. There are millions of people all over the world who subsist entirely on plant based diets. Some people may not do well with Soy, but ruling out a plant based diet because some people are utterly stupid is misguided at best. ... ... Use your heads, and get off your high horses. That goes for both sides of the debate. Learn all you can about health and nutrition, and then do what works best for you. Then encourage others to do the same.   [End]
    • yet another good reason to avoid EVERY ’DIET’ ALIVE. they c...   bellaismad   4y
       
      yet another good reason to avoid EVERY ’DIET’ ALIVE. they can kill you and cause shit to happen. aboslutely NO diets ever, not for me. i refuse to follw any of them no matter how healthy they are claimed to be. especially those idiotic, skinny raw foodists   [End]
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