Question:
Is it true that stones ( liver stones or gallstones) people get when doing liver cleanse are actually small balls of soap formed inside bowel over night?

Some doctors claim that stones are olive oil soap!



Answer:

Soap Chemistry
==============
Soap is a salt of fatty acid.


How Soaps Are Made ?
=================
The chemical reaction that produces soap is called saponification. It occurs when a hot caustic alkali solution, such as caustic soda (sodium hydroxide = natrium hydroxide = NaOH), acts on natural fats or oils to produce a smooth, semisolid, fatty acid salt (soap) and glycerin, or glycerol.


The boiling process.
===============
Soap can easily be made at home by boiling water with animal fat or vegetable oils and wood ash. As the water boils, the fat molecules are broken down into fatty acids. Saponification occurs when these fatty acids react with potassium carbonate from the ash to form soap.




Main difference between soap and cholesterol stones!
====================================================
IMPORTANT !!!

If stones were soap, you could easily dissolve them in water.

Soap made of olive oil is liquid, not hard like cholesterol stones!
It takes days on open air, before olive oil soap hardens, suppose that there is no extra water around!

Olive oil Soaps are liquid and are water soluble (even in cold water)!


If stones were soap, they would be dissolved in water inside human body, inside intestines, they would not come out as a solid, green stones surrounded with liquid.


Cholesterol Stones - product of Liver Cleansing - are solid, waxy and are not soluble in water.


Cholesterol Stones can melt in hot water, but are still not soluble in hot water.

Other inconsistencies:

Amount of caustic alkali ingredients in bile is not enough to produce thousands of stones.

Temperature inside human body is too low, to produce olive oil soap.


====================================================
Read carefully those differences, before you next time assume that Cholesterol Stones - product of Liver Cleansing - are actually made of olive oil soap - soap created inside intestines, over night, as some docs are trying (hard) to make you believe.
====================================================


Soap characteristics:
http://www.soapnuts.com/indexoils.html




Making olive oil soap
______________________


Produced by:
http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php


Ingredients:
======================
Water: 188 milliliters (188g)
Dry Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH): 60g (or Potassium Hydroxide (KOH))
Olive oil: 500g
======================



WARNING: Always add your solid form lye, sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, to the liquid. If the liquid were added to the solid form lye a violent reaction could result. This means you could have a "volcano" erupt out of your container.


Always wear protective goggles, gloves and other safety clothing when handling sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. Refer to the appropriate MSDS for complete details.



Basic Soapmaking Instructions


While wearing safety goggles and neoprene gloves, combine solid lye and liquid, stir well. Set aside and allow to cool (100° F to 125° F). This is best done outside while you are standing upwind.




Combine oils and heat gently. Once the fats and oils are melted allow the temperature to drop to 100° F to 125° F.




Combine lye solution and melted oils. Be careful not to splash while combining the mixtures. Stir until the mixture traces. If tracing takes more than 15 minutes, which it often does, stir for the first 15 minutes, then stir for 5 minutes at 15 minute intervals. Tracing looks like a slightly thickened custard, not instant pudding but a cooked custard. It will support a drop, or your stir marks for several seconds. Once tracing occurs...


Pour raw soap into your prepared molds. After a few days the soap can be turned out of the mold. If the soap is very soft, allow it to cure for a few days to firm the outside.


Cut soap into bars and set the bars out to cure and dry. This will allow the bar to firm and finish saponification. Place the bars on something that will allow them to breathe.



================================






http://wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem1002/soap.htm
The Synthesis and Properties of Soaps






Soap History
http://search.ebi.eb.com/ebi/article/0,6101,37306,00.html


The ancient Romans made soap from animal fat and wood ashes, but these early soaps were apparently used only for medical purposes. Not until the 2nd century AD were soaps recognized as cleaning agents. The transformation of soapmaking from a handicraft to an industry was aided by Nicolas LeBlanc's discovery in about 1790 of a process for manufacturing soda ash from brine (a form of salt).


During World War II, efforts were made to develop synthetic cleaning agents, or detergents. Detergents became increasingly popular substitutes for soap for almost all applications except bathing. Half of these detergents were ABS-based, and by the late 1950s their heavy use had caused foam to collect in many major rivers, lakes, and oceans across the world.


Such pollution had not been a problem with soaps because some types of bacteria can digest and break down soap molecules. The synthetic detergent molecules, however, were too complex for bacteria to break down. The problem was solved by simplifying the structure of the hydrocarbon portion of ABS. In the latter half of the 20th century, other components of detergents, such as phosphates, were found to cause a different form of water pollution. Today increasing efforts are being made to find harmless biodegradable substitutes for harmful detergent ingredients. (See also Pollution, Environmental.)

Questions:
How to count stones ?
Why should I try to keep my stones ?


You can use white, plastic colander that fits and put it into toilet bowl.

Holes shoild not be bigger then 2 mm, or small stones (that are very
common) will go straight through.


Then, after empting intestines, when you see something inside colander (stones), you wash them with water.


Then you put them on the white paper, to dry them.


Then you can count them, take a photo, cut them, weight them, examine them with rubber glowes, knife, microscope, water, nose, vinegar, oils, ...


You can try to find what can dissolve them, for example.

If you have any knowledge of chemistry, try to use it.


To preserve them for longer then 1 day, you can freez them or put thme in formaldehyde or vinegar.


If you don't, it may happen they get "attacked" by intestinal bacteria, and converted into fatty cholesterol acids.
Some stones are so solid that they don't need to be preserved.



Unles you wear a special mask, you will for sure notice the smell, (very different then feces).


You will see that they are not soap, or feces.


Soap or feces is water soluable, liver and GB stones are not.
Soap smell different. Feces smell different. Oil smell different.


Soap and feces are heavier then water, most stones float, even after many months in water.




Why should you try to keep your stones?


As there is almost nothing in modern Science to be found about those stones and flushing, we, everybody here, including you, are just collecting facts and experiences to bridge that scientific gap.

You and I have chance to contribute to modern Science as much as anyone else.


It is very important to take a photo and/or to keep those stones.
After one year you may forget how big stones you passed 12 months gao, and how many?

After few months you may get a chance or money to anlyze them and know what they are made from?

After few years you may want to show it to your kids, grandchildren,
relatives, friends, doctor, ...



How many of you asked question: What are the facts and Science about flush and stones?

Why don't may doctor recomends it ?

Why ther is almost nothing in literature about stones, liver and link to allergies, shoulder pain, ashtma, colitis, cancer ... ?





If you want your children to avoid asking that questin, then you, and we all should do something to collect as many fats as we can.


Photo is the most simple proof of succesful flush.


Your story as also a great contribution to science.



IMPORTANT!!!!!


Few things to remember when posting your story! Do not forget to write:


- Your age and gender (gender, because names like Danielle, Denis, Robin, Dax, P.T., J.K. ... can be nick names, or real names both male and female.

This group is international, and not everyone knows that Danielle is
a male name. )


- your health and symptoms with as many details as you can remember.
- number of stones you got, size, colour, (even smell), and take a photo, (does not have to be digital !!!)


- if this is your 3rd or 6th or 12th flush, say that. Say also if and how do you feel, after so many flushes, ...
- how many people you personally know who did this cleanse
- how many members of your familly should do this cleanse ....


- a new members are signing to this group every day, do not be affraid to repeat all this info after every cleanse you do.


Help yourself, and help others. Bring facts to the surface.


If you don't do your best to bring the facts, tomorrow, you will be
watching you grandchildren suffer from allergies, asthma, ear pain, ... harmfull medications, and you will not be able to change that, becuse your son-in-law (or daughter-in-law or ...) is a doctor or sceptic and/or he/she does not believe in what you say, because that is just a "quackery".




Regards
Agnes

> Question:
> Have anyone had their stones analyzed?
>
>
>
> Answer:




There is a story reported in The Lancet, medical journal.

"Apple Juice and the Chemical-Contact Softening of Gallstones," Dekkers R, Lancet, December 18/25, 1999;354:2171. #34484.
Lancet December 18/25, 1999 354:2171


Gallbladder Surgery Alternative

The Lancet reported the use of one quart of pure apple juice for one week. After one full week of the apple juice one cup of olive oil was used just before going to bed. The person was instructed to lay on their left side during the night.


This is an anecdotal case report of a female who, for 1 week, consumed 1 liter of apple juice daily and, on the seventh day, 1 cup of olive oil before going to bed, resulting in documented fatty stones found in her stools.


http://www.thelancet.com/journal/vol354/iss9196/full/llan.354.9196.correspondence.2464.1
http://www.thelancet.com/

Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:57:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Laboratory test result
To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: JayTownsend@aol.com


Hi:


This is from //www.curezone.org/cleanse/liver/Are_You_Stoned.asp


and is a quote from Dr. Lewis who wrote: ""Are you 'Stoned'?" by chiropractor
Claude M. Lewis, Edith Hiett and Leon Hiett.


To quote from Dr Lewis:


"To clarify the situation and eliminate such questions, I sent a sample of
gall stones to a medical analysis lab run by a Ph.D. who heads up the Science
Department at Texas Woman's University in Denton. He ran the necessary tests…



His analysis of the stone sample I sent was 91% cholesterol and the rest was
bile salts, water and inert ingredients. In other words, the sample had the
chemical contents of gall stones. And the report clearly states it was gall
stones".


My opinion of chiropractors is not nearly as high as it once was, but that
doesn't detract from the lab analysis that Dr. Lewis had done. 91%
cholesterol means that they will float quite nicely. From all of the
postings and all the sites out there that have pictures, it seems obvious to
me that the flushes are producing/expelling gallstones.


By the way, that site has a flush also. Probably a little more difficult
than the Epsom Salt routine, but one that I'll try on my next flush.

Jay

Question:
Have anyone had their stones analyzed?



Answer:



From:
http://www.healthlibrary.com/reading/rebello/pg39.htm



Olive Oil Treatment for Gallstones
by Dr. D. Koh

Dept. of Social Medicine and Public Health

National University of Singapore, Lower Kent Ridge Road, Singapore 0511.


Koh reports here a case of spontaneous passage of multiple cholesterol gall-stones after self-treatment with olive oil and lemon juice.

It is estimated that Gallstones are present in approximately 15% of adult females and 6% of adult males, and its prevalence increases with age. Although it is generally agreed that there is a need for surgical treatment, in patients with cholelithiasis who develop complications, the treatment of 'silent stones' is controversial.


At present, the application of drug treatment of cholelithiasis is relatively expensive and limited, usually for those unfit for surgery, with small radiolucent stones, and without history of complications.


Other methods of treatment of gall stones have also been described. Kurtz and Classen have reported that treatment for common bile duct stones may include endoscopic removal and lithotripsy, and gallstone dissolution by irrigation procedures.



CASE REPORT
The patient, a 32-year old Indian male, insurance salesman, had a 3-year history of epigastric pain and colicky right hypochondrial pain whenever he took fatty meals. Physical examination was unremarkable and a barium meal study showed no evidence of gastro-oesophageal reflux or hiatus hernia, and no evidence of gastric or duodenal ulcer. However, the plain abdominal X-ray revealed multiple radio-opaque gallstones.


The patient was advised surgery for cholelithiasis, but was not enthusiastic about the idea. He returned the following day with news that he had attempted a self-cure for the Gallstones using olive oil and lemon juice. According to him, after fasting from noon, he took one pint of olive oil and lemon juice at 7 p.m. He then went to sleep on his right side. At about 2 - 3 a.m., the following morning, he felt a churning sensation in the abdomen. At 5 a.m. he passed out oily stools which he collected in a strainer. Upon washing the stools, he found numerous smooth stones.

Analysis of two of the stones showed them to be greenish, smooth and soft, measuring 15 x 12 x 5 mm and 10 x 6 x 3 mm, respectively.

_________________________________________________________
The stones were found to consist entirely of cholesterol.
_________________________________________________________



TREATMENT

P.Airola in his book How to Get Well has described an 'oil cure' for removal of gallstones, using raw natural unrefined vegetable oils of olive, sunflower or walnut, while Roberts has prescribed a specific dosage of 1 pint of olive oil and the juice of 8 to 9 lemons. The patient is required to take 4 tablespoonfuls of olive oil followed by 1 tablespoonful of lemon juice at 15-minute intervals. This is to be started in the evening after fasting from lunch time, and the Gallstones are expected to be passed out within 24 to 48 hours.

This form of treatment has been largely promoted by non-physicians, but a doctor from Canada (Kotkas L.J.) has reported that 95% of cases he saw this treatment used on passed out gallstones.


This treatment is non-invasive, and numerous stones measuring up to 15 mm could be passed out. As the olive oil cure could perhaps prove to be a relatively inexpensive alternative to costly conventional drug treatments, it is suggested that controlled and supervised studies could be considered to explore the safety and efficacy of this mode of treatment for gallstones.

Question:
Have anyone had their stones analyzed?



Answer:


My Doc Desn't want to analyze it !!!!


from archives of gallstones@yahoogroups.com



================================
================================


From:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/message/9299

From: "david pascucci"
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Stones Analyzed


OK, so, I had my second appointment with my GI on Monday, and ALL the tests
showed up completely normal! (HIDA Scan, Small Bowel series) ALSO, the "green
stone" that I was having analyzed, of course, came back as FECAL MATTER. I
looked at the doctor and asked "What was it made of? Bile? Cholesterol?" and
he just said "FECAL MATTER". I asked then why is it dark-emerald shiny green
inside and almost like a hard jello? No normal fecal matter I know looks like
that. Isn't it bile? He said "Well, bile IS fecal matter". I was ready to
punch him! BUT, I just let it rest and knew from that point on I had to handle
this myself. Of course, he wrote everything off as being IBS and/or stress,
Blah, blah, blah....

I couldn't believe that it peaked absolutely no interest in him whatever to
understand WHY I would pass a dark-emerald shiny green "mass" after not eating
for 2 days and having only juice.

BUT, it doesn't matter anymore. After my 2nd flush I continue to improve with
my digestion, the pressure is MUCH less, and I don't lose my appetite for days
at a time like I had been. THANK GOD!! I also think that the Stone Free
product is a help.

You know, I don't care anymore what this stuff is coming out of me. The
cleanse is getting SOMETHING out and that in and of itself is a great
accomplishment, and HAS to be doing a lot of good for my body. We wash the
OUTSIDE of our bodies, why in the world weren't we ever told to "wash" the
INSIDES of our bodies. I'm somewhat glad I had those attacks, because it got
me started on this cleanse that I never would have done.

....-Dave

================================
================================



From:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/message/9303
=======================
From: Rachd1961@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Re: Stones Analyzed


You said it! Took the words right out of my mouth. :) I know it had to
be frustrating when the doctor wasn't the least bit intrigued by the analysis
of the stone, but your attitude about cleansing is wonderful.

When I look back on the last 4 months (since I was told that I had to
schedule surgery) and the cleansing that I've done and the journey that I've
taken - I can also say that I'm somewhat glad I had the attacks because
otherwise I would have just continued on the path of unhealthy eating that I
had been on. And I would have undoubtedly paid for it in other ways down the
road.

your words were inspiring - thank you! :)

rachel~








================================
================================


From: pdbk92255@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 4:50 am
Subject: Stones being analyzed



I have gotten my skeptical doctor to agree to analyze my "stones"
from my first flush. I should have the results tomorrow. I'm
expecting to hear that they are little balls of cholesterol and bile,
right? But, exactly, what is the composition of a true gallstone.
Anyone know?


In my continued attempts to try to save my gallbladder (I have to
wait another week to do my second flush) I think I will try the
parasite purge. I'm only familiar with Dr. H Clark's suggestions for
this...the "zapper" and the Black-Walnut Hull/Wormwood/Clove recipe.
Does anyone know of another avenue for this parasite cleansing?


I have been taking the oil/lemon drink in the AM and PM and I
feel/see no significant changes....and I'm as constipated as I ever
was! I would think this would have helped, but Nooooooo.


I still fight off nightly gallbladder attacks with light diet (no
fried foods, no fats)...but it is touch and go, to be sure. Sometimes
I think I should throw in the towel and head on down to "cut it out"
department.


When I think about it, exactly WHY am I trying to hang on to my
diseased gall bladder? Lower incidence of Colon Cancer, I hear.
Is that true? I've had a couple older members of my family have
their gall bladders removed and they say it is no big deal! That I'm
making it a big deal...


Okay, it's late and I'm not real "up", better go to bed and stave off
another attack, hopefully! ;-) Pat in Houston

=======================================


From: pdbk92255@aol.com
Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:39 pm
Subject: Analyzing Stones





Also..just to update those interested. I really DID turn over my
"stones" on March 20 to my skeptical doctor to have analyzed..Wgat
was first, "it will take a couple days" turned into "it takes 7-10
days" and yesterday when I called for lab results, I was told they
were sent to a lab...which sent them to another lab....which sent
them to ANOTHER lab! Can you believe this. I asked if she could
place a call to find out how much longer. She called me back within
5 minutes and said it will take another 2 weeks to get these results!
UNBELIEVABLE. If I knew where to send them, (SHE couldn't give me
the name of the lab company that has them now) I would bypass
insurance coverage and just sent them off myself....will keep all
posted for further details. On this timetable and handling
alone,...what are the chances of composition change in the stones?????
Thanks. Pat

============================


From: pdbk92255@aol.com
Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 4:23 pm
Subject: Reba..


Reba,,,Congratulations on your first flush...I was quite pleased with my
first one also....and felt great the week following it! Let us know how you
feel this week.


I waited two weeks and did my second flush this past weekend. I got nothing
the second time....I will wait another 2 weeks and try it again. At that
time, I am going to ask for a second ultrasound to see if any changes are
visible from the ultrasound (I got about 70 stones out the first time)


I know you can buy pickled garlic cloves...if you have World Market's, (a
Pier One type store with more food items) they have them. It is a chain
store in Texas....you can always crush it and put it on crackers/bread.
Other wise, I believe you could find them in the NOVEL food section of
grocery stores....


I still have not gotten word on the analysis on my "stones" from the
lab...have been told it will be another week....I'm expecting to hear they
are cholesterol and bile.....which is a type of gallstone...a cholesterol
stone...the other type of stone is a pigment stone, but 70% of stones are
cholesterol stones. MY questions is .... is the cholesterol from these
stones "old" stuff OR "new" stuff we just put into us after drinking all
that OIL?!! and Where does the green come from? I know one my second flush
I had nothing Green At ALL....only diarrehea (how DO you spell that word?)


Good luck and keep posting! Pat

============================


From: pdbk92255@aol.com
Date: Wed Apr 12, 2000 4:23 am
Subject: Brenda...



Brenda--I had recurring pains that ultrasound verified was gallstones. I,
too, was turned over to a surgeon immy and also found myself at the website
along with MANY other websites. That all one month ago......


In the last month, I have done 2 gall bladder flushes and I cut WAY back on
fat. I now eat much more healthy...(My favorite is a spinach salad with
artichokes, tuna and cottage cheese in it and a no fat Honey Mustard dressing
that I make) I now take Lecithin, Milk Thistle and Flax Seed oil and get
lots of lemon juice in my diet, too. I can say the pain is now very
manageable and I am eating again without pain. If I do fall off the wagon
with a high fat meal....well, now, the pain is more just a mild discomfort
for 20-30 minutes.....Not the kind of pain that was keeping me tossing and
turning and wrenching at night, as it used to.


I have not take the prescribed Prevasid (originally thought my problem was
Heartburn), which did help sometimes, for over a week now.


I can only state, for me, sticking with this web site and exploring many
other sites out there on gallstones, liver, etc, not only am I much more
educated, I do still have my gall bladder (knowing that could change at any
time, though) and I eat more for health now instead of emotional
satisfaction...


Hope this helps you. Pat

==================================


From: pdbk92255@aol.com
Date: Tue Apr 25, 2000 6:29 pm
Subject: FINALLY got analysis back!


After being handled by a very skeptic doctor and my "stone" being passed to 3
labs, I finally got the lab results back...Are you ready for this....I waited
1 1/2 months for THIS!


"Stone compostion consists of waxy substance".


When I offered that I had not eaten anything "waxy", and to my knowledge our
bodies do not manufacture wax, the lab technician in my doctors office,
suggested this item may not have come from my body!


Maybe the only sure fire way to find out if "stones" are actually being
flushed out is with ultrasound.....Pat

To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: "ngwjuk" < ngwj@beeb.net >
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:53:10 -0000
Subject: [gallstones] Laboratory test result
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com



Hi everyone, I haven't posted in a while, but some of you may
remember that I have a friend who is a hospital doctor who offered to
take a couple of the stones I got out by flushing, and get them
tested in his lab. He was half expecting them to refuse because I
wasn't a patient at the hospital, but no problem! They were quite
interested. The reason it has taken so long is because they are not
usually asked to analyse gallstones. Normally they get to see them
in gall-bladders that have been surgically removed when it is obvious
what they are. This meant that they had to order some special
chemicals.


However, I have now just had the results back and these confirm to no
great surprise on my part (I've always been a 'believer') but also to
my considerabe relief (I've also had that little nagging doubt) that
the samples I provided were definitely Gallstones - 100% certain!


To my surprise they contained no bilirubin, but they did contain lots
of cholesterol. They were very keen to stress that there was
absolutely no doubt about the analysis, it had been carried out very
carefully and thoroughly.


The work was done by a consultant bio-chemist at a National Health
Service (NHS) Bio-chemistry Laboratory in Scotland.


I feel pretty jubilant at this news - I hope it finally puts paid to
the theories floating around that what we get out is just soap or
gobs of olive oil. Of course it won't stop the malicious doubters
who will probably insist that I have made the whole thing up, or else
that I sneaked into a morgue and stole the stones from a corpse, or
some such nonsense. However, I can tell you all that right now I
feel great as I move onto a new regime of twice-a-year flushing for
the rest of my life!


Keep on flushing! Nick

From: Peacock
Date: Tue May 14, 2002 2:13am
Subject: Re: Dr. Weill says the 'stones' are just oliveoil !


Regarding the comment that Dr. Weill says the stones are just olive oil, I disagree based on the following: About 10 months ago I did an oral Sea Salt enema on the advice of someone. There was no olive oil or any oil involved whatsoever. At the time I didn't even know about the olive oil liver cleanses. I did get out 2 or maybe 3 stones which at the time I didn't realize what they were. Soon after that I learned about Liver Cleanses and did one and realized that the 2 or 3 I had gotten out previously were in fact gallstones. I think Dr. Weill is wrong based on this experience. I'd agree that common sense would suggest that these stones we get out are just olive oil but common sense doesn't seem to prevail in this case.

Beth

 

 

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